Rita Zuba Prokopetz: Building a learning community

Kristina Hoeppner 00:05

Welcome to 'Create. Share. Engage.' This is the podcast about portfolios for learning and more for educators, learning designers, and managers keen on integrating portfolios with their education and professional development practices. 'Create. Share. Engage.' is brought to you by the Mahara team at Catalyst IT. My name is Kristina Hoeppner.

Today I'm speaking with Dr Rita Zuba Prokopetz. Rita earned her Doctor of Education at Athabasca University in Canada and has been researching reflecting, feedback, and portfolios for several years now. I met Rita first online at one of my 'Introduction to Mahara' sessions a couple of years ago and had the chance to follow Rita's career a bit since. Thank you, Rita, for sharing your portfolio story with our community today.

Rita Zuba Prokopetz 00:56

Hi Kristina. Thank you for the opportunity to chat with you today. I am very pleased that I met you online, that I followed your career online, and that we have been able to reconnect recently. So thank you again for having me.

Kristina Hoeppner 01:11

Thank you. So Rita, at first, I'd like to know how you actually got interested in working with portfolios if you want to tell us about your professional journey so far? 

Rita Zuba Prokopetz 01:22

Well [laughs], for a few decades, I was an ESL, English as a Second Language, instructor, and if I remember correctly, it was in the early 1990s that I was introduced to the paper based portfolio. Fast forward to [laughs] early 2010s when I learned about the electronic portfolio during my graduate studies in Educational Technology at Central Michigan University. As you can imagine, Kristina, I saw so many possibilities when I learned about the electronic version that I just had to share with my ESL students. 

The level of the students then was Canadian Language Benchmark level 5 or CLB 5, which is an intermediate level. Just to illustrate at the time my classroom was in a fairly old building with neither classroom computer nor internet connection, a recipe for failure when it comes to ePortfolio. However, the students listened attentively to the possibility of interacting with the instructor and peers beyond the four walls at a place and time convenient to them. Besides, initially, my ePortfolio activity that I was proposing was considered extracurricular. So there was no pressure for anyone to complete any of the CLB 6 tasks that aligned with the competencies for a higher level.

In addition to my graduate studies, entirely online, in my full time work [laughs], I was also facilitating an eight week course in the Certificate of Adult Education one evening in a week. I know, go figure that one! And I introduced a mini version of capstone ePortfolio to this group of college educators and corporate trainers. You can just imagine how that went. Although this course was almost entirely face to face at the time, I chose to make it paperless. So all resources and submissions took place online in our forum. It was a beautiful, for me [laughs], it was a beautiful opportunity to have a borderless classroom, or a classroom without walls, a brand new concept for this group of learners. There were quite a few challenges as you may imagine. And although everyone completed the course, as intended, not everyone [laughs] appreciated the ePortfolio learning experience. You've been there yourself, I know.

These events and others helped me realise how much more I needed to learn in order to become a better facilitator of ePortfolio learning experiences. Regardless of the discipline, it was evident to me that if I were to help ePortfolio creators immerse themselves in a deeper level of learning, I needed to learn much more. It was during this time that I enrolled in, as you mentioned in my doctoral programme of studies, and since then, thanks to Athabasca I have engaged with many groups of graduate students completing their capstone projects in the final course of their programme, a very rewarding experience.

Kristina Hoeppner 04:16

What a whirlwind and [laughs] the insights that you will have gained over more than the last decade. You mentioned that your students took it on, but also had a few challenges. Can you please share one or two things that they liked about the portfolio when you introduced it to them, and maybe also one or two of the challenges that you saw when you started working with electronic portfolios or kind of really taking your class entirely paperless because, of course, 12 years ago, while online and blended learning had been around it must have still been quite a novel experience for a lot of your learners.

Rita Zuba Prokopetz 04:56

Very much so. So I had the ESL students during the day, two to three every single day, and the corporate trainers and college educators in the evening, one evening a week from I think was six to ten pm. People thought I was crazy because I had very long days but I loved every minute of it. I loved the challenge. The ESL students, the challenge was many did not have computers. So they had to use the library after class of course, as they were in class during the day, in order to work on ePortfolio tasks. I had designed live binders for each one of them. So I had the shelf, a virtual shelf with 20 binders for each one of them, plus resources for them to view, open the binders and view the resource on 'paragraph writing', 'conjunctions', whatever the case may be. So they would go to my binder, visit the resources and go to their binder and apply the information. So the challenge was actually not having the proper equipment, or having any equipment at all, for that matter.

For the college trainers and educators, I asked for a classroom that had a computer lab. Besides, within the classroom, the students just didn't like technology [laughs] for some reason, the more I showed my passion for it [laughs], the less they liked it. They completed the programme. That course I designed as well. So it was eight weeks, five to six modules, and the final module was a mini mini version of a capstone ePortfolio project with two pages only, one with introduction of self as a person and as an educator, and the other one of two artefacts we have worked together in class. The challenge was the technology. And of course, I knew very little of the concept itself. I didn't know of all the possibilities. So perhaps, I did not indicate in my actions and words where they could go with the technology that they were struggling so much with but where that could lead them to.

Kristina Hoeppner 06:43

Thank you, Rita. You've been mentioning your capstone course quite a few times. And I know that you have been teaching that also this academic year. In that capstone course you do rely heavily on portfolios. Can you tell us what this most recent course that you've been teaching is about and how portfolios facilitate it?

Rita Zuba Prokopetz 07:04

The final course in the Master of Education in Open Digital and Distance Education programme at Athabasca University is the Capstone ePortfolio Project. The students create a collection of seven pages, with an introduction, five artefacts, and a conclusion. They choose from any of the courses in the MEd programme, five learning experiences that help them tell the story of what they learned, how the learning occurred, and why it matters to them on a personal, academic, and professional level. They articulate their knowledge when they write the reflective passages and align them with some of the sub competencies in the six core competency areas of the programme. They further articulate the impact of the learning journey during the presentation at the end of the course. 

The students in this course relied on their Mahara ePortfolio technology to create their capstone ePortfolio project. In fact, Kristina [laughs], you may not know this, but some started presenting before the final month of class, and it's quite a complex course as you may appreciate. This accomplishment is to some extent the result of two guest speakers we had this term. The first one, a Mahara ePortfolio technology expert - you [laughs] - visited our learning community in our second live seminar. Thank you, Kristina, for sharing relevant information about the ePortfolio development process with the course participants at a time when they needed it most.

The second guest speaker, my colleague, Paul Benson, graduated from the programme when I was a participant observing his cohort as a doctoral student at Athabasca. During his presentation, a week after yours, he shared personal stories of his initial struggles with the technology [laughs] and gradual understanding of the pedagogy that included feedback interaction. I'd like to point out that during the final presentations, the students shared that their participation as feedback givers and receivers had been one of the highlights of their capstone ePortfolio project experience.

So in order to address the question regarding how ePortfolios helped me facilitate the course, I would like to say that I knew beforehand about the impact of peer to peer interaction in ePortfolio development. So I initiated the feedback giving and receiving process on the first week of class. In our first live session, the course participants viewed the Google Doc that had their names listed as feedback givers and subsequently chose names of two peers as their feedback receivers. Some students knew one another from a previous course and some didn't. At the end of our session, everyone was part of a feedback interaction group. This sign up exercise marked the beginning of our community building in terms of smaller sub communities with three or more members in each sub community. In each subsequent class, we shared updates and reminded everyone of the project requirements and timelines, once again bringing the community together.

In my view, the initial four weeks of the course were crucial in terms of proper modelling among members of our learning community, the use of technology, of course, effective information processing, and ongoing opportunity for social learning and co-construction of knowledge. I facilitated this reflective and very emotional, it was really a very emotional, learning process, by hosting the live sessions twice a week, and communicating frequently via the ePortfolio pages to offer suggestions and guidance in terms of page layout, composition, and competency mapping, aligned with the reflective passages.

The course participants and I chose to rely on the Mahara ePortfolio technology for our projects. I personally find Mahara to be a thoughtful ePortfolio management system, since it enables not only a collaborative project development, but also an open sharing of ideas among community members. I know you know that I think this way, but it's worth repeating - Mahara ePortfolio technology, as the course participants experienced, seems to embrace ePortfolio pedagogy in such a way, Kristina, that it engenders the building and the strengthening of ePortfolio sub communities of feedback givers and feedback receivers. These sentiments are visible during the presentations, also referred to as the final defense. This serves as evidence that ePortfolios are well positioned as an innovative way for students to reflect on their learning history and for educators to design meaningful learning episodes. We learn their craft, as we all have, and facilitate instruction in a digital space.

Kristina Hoeppner 11:48

That is quite a different experience from when you started with portfolios. If we just think back a couple of minutes, where you mentioned that your students were overwhelmed and kind of wanted to do less the more you gave them and the more enthusiastic you got, and now it seems that you've really brought your students along and they also see the value of the portfolio.

Rita Zuba Prokopetz 12:11

They certainly do. They are proponents now not because I made them be. It was because of their research, of course, they are scholars now; because of the guest presenters - one from the inside of the course itself, that has been a participant in the course, has gone through the same struggles, and the other one, an expert of the technology and pedagogy aspect and the research. So all of that combined with the instructor [laughs] that loves ePortfolio so much, it was just a recipe for success.

Kristina Hoeppner 12:40

Yeah, what I really like about what you told us now is that the reflection is such a big part, but not just the reflection on the practice of the students, but also the feedback giving and the feedback receiving because we are not learning on our own. There's always that interaction involved. So it's wonderful to see that it was not students sitting there on their own but that they were always engaging with other educators.

Rita Zuba Prokopetz 13:09

Yes, the students were part of a community, they chose that community. But sometimes others would come in and offer feedback on pages of ePortfolios. They didn't have to, they did it because they wanted to. And of course we learn from each other. So they would visit each other's portfolios so they could learn more and improve on their own project, which is a beautiful thing. 

Kristina Hoeppner 13:28

You taught the students entirely online, correct?

Rita Zuba Prokopetz 13:31

Entirely online. It was a three month course. And they had, of course, 15 weeks to complete the project and present, but some presented after the eighth week of the course, which is remarkable. Once again, modelling, modelling for others. Just lovely.

Kristina Hoeppner 13:47

Do you have a presentation that stood out to you or something that a student remarked about their experience in the capstone where you say 'this really embodies portfolio practice' or how you can prepare them for their future job as educators?

Rita Zuba Prokopetz 14:04

I cannot pick one. I was in awe [laughs] of each and every presentation, and the students knew that already [laughs]. They embodied authenticity, vulnerability, and the sense of community. It's not 'my project will be better than yours', 'my project will be good because of you. Because I can see your work, because I can offer you feedback, because you have the right and the choices to accept or not. You do need to acknowledge my feedback. You do need to let me know if you are going to accept portions of the feedback or nothing at all. Because you need to justify your thinking so I can in turn agree with your thinking perhaps from my own project. Oh, uh huh, that's the way it should be. I thought otherwise. But now I can see during our conversation' and of course, this is part of your five C's by the way, 'because of our conversation, I can modify my project my way because you had some impact on me.' They all embody authenticity, vulnerability, a sense of community, a sense of sharing, and of course, they have all become ePortfolio proponents. I had 16 students in this course, they all graduated with flying colours, and they may, just may be going for a doctoral degree after they have a break, of course [laughs], and maybe just maybe include ePortfolio pedagogy in some of their research design.

Kristina Hoeppner 15:28

That is definitely a good hope for future work in the portfolio area. And for them, of course, also to take it back into their workplaces, into the schools where they are teaching and seeing how they can mirror the experience they've had in their own context and introduce portfolios or take them to the next level if they already have portfolios in their organisations. 

Rita Zuba Prokopetz 15:53

Yes, I agree. 

Kristina Hoeppner 15:54

So Rita, you've been talking enthusiastically about portfolios and of course in the audio recording, it's not really easy to see your facial expression so I just want to say [laughs] that you've been smiling the entire time, and I can also really feel your love for portfolios, your love for reflection, community building, feedback giving, and encouraging students to be themselves and to work with what they have available. What keeps you engaged with portfolios? Why do you continue, why don't you jump ship and try something else [Rita laughs]? Not that I want you to. I definitely like you to continue working with portfolios [laughs]. 

Rita Zuba Prokopetz 16:36

You won't get rid of me that easily [laughs]. I recently mentioned in a seminar with students that I have lost the ability to facilitate a course that does not rely on ePortfolio pedagogy to some extent. This is true. Over the past decade, the more relient on ePortfolio pedagogy, for my own learning, Kristina, the greater the desire to learn more about how to properly implement it in my practice, and we discussed this earlier, or at least learn how to do it more efficiently, to be more transparent, and to make it more rewarding for everyone involved in the process - for the students, for the instructor, and anyone else that chooses to be part of the community. 

Back in 2015, Athabasca University professor Dr Deborah Hoven, my dissertation supervisor, provided me with an opportunity to participate in a few sessions of a capstone ePortfolio project course as a feedback giver. That's how I started learning. I knew then that capstone ePortfolios will be the focus of my research study [laughs]. I have loved it since. The following year, I was an intern, so another role. I was an intern in the capstone course facilitated by Dr Susan Moisey, also at Athabasca University. And then after my final defense, Dr Pamela Walsh invited me to collaborate as a co-instructor in three iterations of the capstone ePortfolio course she was facilitating.

I have never tired. I've never been tired at all of participating in, I call them all meaningful learning journeys, journeys of students in ePortfolio learning communities. The desire to learn more and more is what led me to engage in my exploratory ethnographic research study in an educational institution in Western Canada in 2018/2019. The purpose of my proposed study was to gain insight into the experiences of students developing the ePortfolio and participating in self reflection and peer to peer reflection in an online learning community. I consider it a privilege, Kristina, to have been able to participate in the ePortfolio development journey of so many students for almost a decade now. And no, I never tire of it.

Kristina Hoeppner 18:49

Thank you for being such a good ambassador for portfolios at Athabasca University and also the other organisations that you work with. It is people like you that really bring forward the practice of portfolios that implement it in organisations and also through your enthusiasm kind of bring people along, let them see how wonderful the practice is, and how valuable as well. That it's not just for a grade and to finish the capstone course and earn the masters and then continue on to a research career or go back to their workplace, but really to see the value for themselves.

Rita, you've been involved in the community for several years now. Have you observed any trends in portfolio work in the area where you're active in?

Rita Zuba Prokopetz 19:39

Trends? Yes, I believe that approximately a decade ago, Dr Trent Batson, one of my mentors, and Dr Edward Watson, also another mentor of mine, from the Association of Authentic, Experiential and Evidence-Based Learning (AAEEBL) wrote about some of the trends which include items of interest to vendors in terms of platform functionality and operability, creators as related to ownership and accessibility, educators regarding a changing mindset from instructor centric to student centric pedagogical approach, and also the institution of education as a whole in terms of sophistication and elegance espoused by ePortfolio's pedagogy of choice in online learning spaces.

In addition to those topics, Kristina, what I see as a possible trend, and we discussed this earlier, is that the field of research is wide open not only in terms of themes, but also possibilities for participation in collaboration. What I see happening now is that graduate students will complete an ePortfolio as a capstone project, and I include myself in this statement, leaving their programme of studies eager to address certain questions that may have emerged during their only ePortfolio development process experience. It happened to me, and I think it has happened to those 16 graduate students that just finished the programme.

As I have seen first hand, the questions that emerge are often related to the alignment of the ePortfolio pedagogy with aspects of the ePortfolio creator's work environment in terms of: 1) improving online pedagogy in case of educators and trainers; 2) redesign in existing courses; and 3) engaging staff and peers in ePortfolio mediated self development. Just to mention a few. As I have observed, students who experience a meaningful ePortfolio development process, or ePortfolio practice done well, as suggested by Eynon and Gambino, become more aware of their growth on a personal, academic, and professional level. And also, that's my point of view, they seem eager to implement ePortfolio pedagogy in their workplace, as you mentioned earlier.

Kristina Hoeppner 21:54

Now, of course, those are fantastic trends to see and to observe over time and see also what students make out of it. But is there something that you'd like to be able to do with portfolios but can't yet - be it either through the technology or from the pedagogical side or maybe institutional constraints?

Rita Zuba Prokopetz 22:16

My response will be twofold. One part involves developing a course [laughs] - although I have developed two in the past - but developing a course and I'll explain what type of course and the other one is about facilitating a course that includes an ePortfolio as a capstone project. I know you say 'oh, you've done that.' Yes, I have, but not this way. Now, I would actually like to collaborate in the design of a course that includes modules on various concepts aligned with the development of an ePortfolio such as the technology, the pedagogy, the feedback interaction, reflection, and the importance of maintaining a strong learning community. The course will be open, accessible, and the lessons will be scaffolded to help course participants revisit, and I find this aspect very important, the theory underpinning ePortfolio practice. 

In an ideal world, Kristina [laughs], the course would be an institution wide requirement for educators and educational leaders considering implementing ePortfolios. I envision this ePortfolio course in different ways. For example, a self directed asynchronous learning resources for the learners that prefer to work that way, and/or a facilitated, massive open online course, and even perhaps an online option that includes synchronous and asynchronous sessions in a series of five to six modules, each covering a concept aligned with ePortfolio development to benefit both educators and learners. So that's the first part of my response to you.

Second item on my wish list [laughs], Kristina, is to one day, in the near future, to facilitate a capstone ePortfolio course in collaboration with an ePortfolio proponent who fully understands the needs of individuals with different abilities. I have actually discussed this idea over the years with my colleague, Paul Benson, I mentioned his name again. Paul has undergone the ePortfolio development process at least once, has experienced first hand the need to integrate voice recognition software with ePortfolio technology, and is an advocate for change in terms of disability, accessibility, barriers, and activism. He is also a naturally reflective individual who became a model to other community members in his cohort and of course, I was part of his cohort.

So the two items on my wish list and there may be others in the future ]laughs] are 1) to collaborate in the development of a course that would be of benefit to educators and educational leaders, and if I could say, make it mandatory for anyone implementing ePortfolio in their institutions; and 2) facilitate a course in collaboration with an advocate for change related to more inclusivity, accessibility, and remove all of the barriers for ePortfolio creators of different abilities.

Kristina Hoeppner 25:05

These are wonderful wishlist items. And well, I can't really help with the first one entirely, but I can help with connecting you to someone because Orna Farrell from Dublin City University was actually also interested in creating a MOOC for portfolio practice. So you might already have a good collaborator there and of course, I'll be very happy to connect you with others and also be involved in some way. And maybe we can also get Paul onto the podcast at some point to talk about his perceptions and his perspective on digital ethics and the areas that he's interested in.

Rita Zuba Prokopetz 25:45

That would be wonderful. Thank you.

Kristina Hoeppner 25:47

Now we are coming to the end of our session already. And so I'd like to ask you three short questions if that's okay with you.

Rita Zuba Prokopetz 25:56

You may ask me as many questions as you wish Kristina.

Kristina Hoeppner 25:59

Which words do you use to describe portfolio work, portfolio practice?

Rita Zuba Prokopetz 26:04

There are many, but the words that come to mind are all related to what my students have experienced during the development of their own projects. And I think I mentioned this earlier. Vulnerability, interaction, and community. In other words, I view the interactive ePortfolio learning experiences as a way to show ePortfolio creators that it is okay and safe to be vulnerable in their ePortfolio learning community, in smaller feedback sub communities. So those are my three words.

Kristina Hoeppner 26:33

What tip do you have for learning designers or other instructors who create portfolio activities?

Rita Zuba Prokopetz 26:40

If you allow me, I will rely on one of your resources for part of my answer here. So in my perspective, ePortfolio activities need to engender a sense of community where members feel like sharing in a safe space, and where different opinions are embraced. As I have experienced, courses that rely on a capstone project include feedback giving and feedback receiving interaction at various stages of the ePortfolio development process. As a result, there is a feeling of community among course participants, which helps instil a sense of trust necessary for the ongoing interaction on each of their ePortfolio pages.

I guess, I don't have to point out that this is an example of connection and conversation, two of the five Mahara ePortfolio activities [laughs] or the five C's as you refer to them in some of your resources. So my suggestion for learning designers or instructors would be to ensure feedback interaction is visible, ongoing, and promotes a sense of community building. The back and forth communication promotes awareness, strengthens peer learning processes, and helps trigger moments of reflection.

Kristina Hoeppner 27:48

Last but not least, what advice do you have for portfolio creators?

Rita Zuba Prokopetz 27:53

But here comes the rest of the five Cs [laughs], or maybe all of them again. Since we relied on the Mahara ePortfolio technology for all our projects this session, it was only natural for us to include the five C's activities to help guide our capstone ePortfolio project. So my suggestion for new creators would be to engage in 1) create and collect. My advice is to include everything in the first draft during the ideation and brainstorming phase and then make a copy of all the pages and then work on the second version during the subsequent pages of the project. 2) curate. My advice here is to select the pages for the specific type of ePortfolio required. In our case, Kristina, it was a process of learning about and with ePortfolio. As the students experienced, the selection process seems to trigger bouts of reflection on their learning to date. And third, your final two C's - connect and converse. My final advice is to engage in feedback giving and receiving interaction to help promote a deeper level of reflection, assist with the alignment of competencies, and support the building and strengthening of a learning community. A key element underpinning portfolio pedagogy in my view,

Kristina Hoeppner 29:07

Thank you Rita for giving such a good representation of the five C's. I must tell you. Initially they were actually just four C's. They were only create, collect, curate, and connect. But then I presented at a conference in Auckland a few years ago and an instructional designer / learning designer, Shen Zhang, she actually suggested, "well shouldn't we also have 'converse' in there to have those conversations between people?" So they are not just my five C's but they have been tested with others and expanded, which I find really, really nice because that also shows that part of the community and that we learn from each other.

Rita Zuba Prokopetz 29:49

My students embrace them. Thank you very much.

Kristina Hoeppner 29:52

Rita, it was so wonderful to talk to you today and in particular to listen to what you have to say about your capstone course experience and also where you're coming from with your own portfolio practice. It demonstrates what many of course in our community say about needing to experience portfolios yourself in order to understand them better because if you've experienced them yourself, you teach portfolios, and now you're doing exactly the same thing with your Master's of Education students - that they work with portfolios in order to learn about portfolios. So that we really have that 'practice the practice' in order to understand it better, in order to embody it, and really know how portfolios can support us. Thank you so much for your time today.

Rita Zuba Prokopetz 30:43

Thank you, Kristina.

Kristina Hoeppner 30:45

Now over to our listeners. What do you want to try in your own portfolio practice? This was 'Create. Share. Engage.' with Rita Zuba Prokopetz today. Head to our website podcast.mahara.org where you can find resources and the transcript for this episode. This podcast is produced by Catalyst IT, and I'm your host, Kristina Hoeppner, Project Lead and Product Manager of the portfolio platform Mahara. Our next episode will air in two weeks. I hope you'll listen again and tell a colleague about our podcast so they can subscribe. Until then, create, share, and engage.