Kristina Hoeppner: 0:05

Welcome to'Create. Share. Engage.' This is the podcast about portfolios for learning and more for educators, learning designers, and managers keen on integrating portfolios into their education and professional development practices.'Create. Share. Engage.' is brought to you by the Mahara team at Catalyst IT. My name is Kristina Hoeppner. Today I invited Mark Brady, a Bachelor of Science student at Dublin City University in Ireland for a chat. In 2022, he was the winner of the DCU Annual ePortfolio Student Showcase and Awards. Congratulations, Mark, and thank you so much for the chat today.

Mark Brady: 0:48

Thank you. Thank you for having me.

Kristina Hoeppner: 0:50

Mark, can you please tell us a little bit about yourself? What do you do?

Mark Brady: 0:54

I am a mature student in Dublin City University, and I'm studying a Bachelor of Science in Psychology and Disruptive Technologies.

Kristina Hoeppner: 1:05

That is a fairly new study programme, you told me before we started recording, and you are one of the first students to go through it. Why did you get interested in that programme?

Mark Brady: 1:16

So I am 40 years of age, and I have a bit of a career and background behind me or various different positions and jobs and roles that I've done in the past. And a lot of them were quite centred around people. Technology as in some of the tasks that I would have had to do or some of the skills that I developed, required use of technology in different ways and kind of they presented opportunities for me to creatively explore how to best utilise those kinds of technologies. And I suppose over the years, I've grown an interest in that, but I've never really fully formally developed specific skills in those areas. So it was kind of like a learning process as I went along. I had always had this interest in pursuing something that would help me develop in a more structured way. At the time of the COVID pandemic, I was self employed with a videography business, and I was doing pretty well until events and everything like that were shut up, and I had to rethink my future. When I went looking, basically it was a friend of mine who reminded me of my interest to go and study psychology sometime, and that prompted me to go and look at options that were available to me at that time. As I was scoping out various different universities, various different degrees and courses and different options. I stumbled upon the Psychology and Disruptive Technologies programme in DCU. It was never run before. So it was quite novel, it was quite new. That was kind of it. I did a bit of research behind it, checked out what was involved. It really interested me. So in Ireland here we have a system called the CAO. It's a process that students would take, especially if you're going through your first course of formal academic study in third level, we all go through that process. So within that, I think if I remember correctly, you get 10 choices of different courses, and you rank them in the order in which you want to pursue them. So this was my number one choice. So put that as number one, and then other psychology degrees followed. I went through an interview process. I was really privileged to be offered a place on the first cohort to undergo this programme. And here we two years later.

Kristina Hoeppner: 3:42

And just a year and a quarter or so away from you graduating.

Mark Brady: 3:46

Yes, exactly. It's crazy, and at the moment, I didn't really expect to go through such a both, academic, professional - I - well, I kind of knew I go through an academic, professional transformation or a moment of change, but I'm going through a very strong and personal transformation at the moment that's both challenging and exhilarating. And I think this moment, right now, as I'm getting ready to embark on the whole final year of this particular degree, it's a really profound moment of so many different things all happening altogether. So I'm currently on a placement with a global company in Cork in Ireland. The opportunities I've been given with this company is really testament to the actual programme that I'm studying. I'm working in a surgical device company. When you think about psychology and disruptive technologies, people ask me,"What do you do in a medical device company?" And I'm like,"You're gonna have to check out my programme." You know, it gives you a sense of the opportunities that this kind of programme will prepare students for.

Kristina Hoeppner: 4:57

That you are now having a placement at a medical device company I think also shows how degrees need to change because it's not just about any technical knowledge, how to create the device or how to make it safer, but also bring that psychological element in there, that there's always humans at the end of the line that are being engaged. But our chat today is really around portfolios because when you were the winner of the DCU Annual ePortfolio Student Showcase and Awards in 2022, I've seen your portfolio and that just looked magnificent. And that's also the reason why I really wanted to talk with you today to learn more about why you were creating the portfolio and what you have learned in the process. Do you still remember why you started out with a portfolio? Was that part of a class or was that part of a different activity at DCU?

Mark Brady: 5:52

It actually was part of our class. I don't think it's only part of our programme. I think it really extends across many programmes in the university where students are really encouraged to continuously reflect on progress from an academic point of view, from a personal point of view, and especially in the School of Psychology, it's seen as really beneficial practice. From the start of our programme, we were encouraged to start journalling. We had one particular programme in first year, which was all around critical thinking, thinking outside the box, and combining that with elements of psychology and technology, and as part of that programme, one of our assignments was to create an ePortfolio of our experience. It was really good because especially for my classmates - so my classmates will be an average of 20 years younger than me [laughs]. So especially for those coming into this new way of learning to really bring them into that realm of thinking about everything they're doing, and thinking about what they might be learning, thinking about what they might wonder, thinking about what they already know, and trying to apply that in some sort of a portfolio sense to help them connect dots in some way on the journey. So from day one, really, it's been part of the journey. And each year after that, now we're in third year, I've just completed my third or fourth ePortfolio. So I have three orders, probably since the one you've seen, and each one has maybe changed a little bit in approach and design and how I kind of approach it, they got a little bit more intensive as they went along.

Kristina Hoeppner: 7:32

Do you create one portfolio then per year for your overall study programme or is it in a particular class?

Mark Brady: 7:40

It's a particular class. Do you know what when I think back, there were more classes that really were a culmination of various different things that we learned in the overall programme. And there were probably the classes that just brought various elements of what we learned in other classes. You know, if you were at a kind of traditional pillar of psychology class, for example, like cognition or biological psychology or something else, we'd often in our programme have at least one class that allows us to bring elements of what we've learned in all of those classes together in some way. When I look back, it seems to be relevant to those classes where we've actually had to do the ePortfolio so it makes sense. And also when I think back on my own portfolios that I've done, and I'm doing more leaving now at the moment, during my experience here with the company in Cork, when I'm putting them together, I'm drawing in a lot of what I learned in the overall programme, even though it's a module based assignment.

Kristina Hoeppner: 8:42

Mark, what did you learn in the process of working on your portfolios then over the last two and a half years?

Mark Brady: 8:50

One of my vulnerabilities before I came to college, and it still is, is writing [laughs]. I was always very good expressive in visuals and music and all of those kinds of means, but I always struggled when it came to writing. I could talk like nobody, and people will often say that I can talk for Ireland. But this whole portfolio experience has been new to me. Whenever I jump at an assignment or whenever I jump at the opportunity to create a portfolio, I might have an idea in mind, but there's this profound change or shift that happens to me when I approach it. So I'll have various things in my head and I'm like, "Okay, yeah, I'm gonna take it this way, and I'm gonna start writing it out this way," but when I'm actually piecing it together, I start to see things as if I step outside of my body for a moment, and I'm looking at myself in a totally different way. I don't even know how to explain the process. It's like when I maybe talk about my experience, actually, that's a good first step that I would do. But then I try and I look at some things that I've learned and revisit things that I've read or learned throughout the semester or whatever it is that I'm doing. And that enables me to step outside of myself for a moment and rethink what I just wrote about my experience, and then revisit my experience in a different way with a different perspective perhaps, and try to maintain that. That approach helps me try to unravel some deeper things that I might have learned about the experience. It often has this profound effect on me - like at the moment, the technique I'm using for journalling - so I'm taking these weekly journals, instead of typing, I'm actually just talking to a dictation device at the end of each week, and then I transcribe it, and then I look at the transcription, and then I try to find kind of themes and what I said when I look back on it, and then I just kind of formulate my journal in that way. So it's actually a different approach that I'm doing this time than what I would have done in the past time. But the experience is the same. I never thought it would have that effect on me before, like three years ago, I would have thought I am just talking about myself or you know, I'm talking about my experience, or as you're actually engrossed in the experience, I find this profound shift and this change and this ability to really see yourself a little bit from the outside, or at least try to do that as much as I can.

Kristina Hoeppner: 11:16

I love the process that you're going through by using your strength of talking, recording that, but then also revisiting that recording and making it more concise and then ending up with written text. Have you also experimented with just handing in your recording as a journal entry, rather than going through that written step?

Mark Brady: 11:38

[laughs] No. That's crossing the line [laughs]. No, maybe I've just done it once. And I had to - actually I just realised I have five portfolios. So there was just one other portfolio I did in Spanish language. I had to do a verbal recording of me speaking Spanish, and I felt so uncomfortable doing it that I put it off and I haven't been able to listen to it ever again. So yeah, I'd be very uncomfortable with that. Maybe it might be something down the line when I have no more techniques to try [laughs].

Kristina Hoeppner: 12:09

It is always good to find ways that work best for you because the nice thing about using an electronic portfolio platform, like Mahara, that is being used at DCU is that you could upload images, videos, audio recordings, and the like. But of course, you do need to be comfortable with the medium. So let's see how your current technique is serving you.

Mark Brady: 12:31

It's really - the weekly journalling is all about kind of reaching that reflective piece. So I'm not necessarily assessed on the journal entries as such. I can share as many as I want, but those parts are almost regarded as kind of your personal journey, and then I'll draw in maybe between nine and 12 of those into a final reflection, which is really the bulk of what I present to the university. But the rest of it really helps me see the journey. And it is profound for me, I wouldn't really have thought much on this in the past, but as I'm actually going through and even if I look back on the past two weeks, for example of what I did, there's things that show like, I might have thought that I did nothing in those weeks or didn't do a whole lot. But when I had the chance to look back, I'm like, "Oh, I actually learned something that week." You know, it really shows how much we take for granted as we go along on our journeys. I have to say this particular one, I've done several portfolios before, but the one I'm currently doing, and maybe it's because I'm doing it, and I'm conscious, and I'm aware of what I'm doing, I feel more secure when doing it, I feel more confident in doing it. That's kind of testament to this ongoing, continuous journey that we've had over the past three years and developing all of those skills of being able to do those things, and I'm feeling more confident to find my own way to do it. I never recorded my voice in the past, but now I'm finding it actually - it helps me more in gathering my thoughts. Stepping away from myself, I can ramble, I can talk. I often will talk and sometimes in my own head while I'm talking, I'm not making any sense, but it's like this stream of consciousness [laughs], but it's great to listen back on it because then I'm like, "Okay, let's refine it." And then what I might do in the long term, like what I hope it does is it helps me actually refine how I speak and how I talk and how I present myself in public settings or presentations.

Kristina Hoeppner: 14:32

I love that you're doing that pretty much on a weekly basis and then go back to those initial reflections to look at the wider picture because of course, if you did it only once a semester or at the end of your placement, so many things would have been forgotten as you've just said, you didn't even realise what you had learned two weeks ago, but by going to that reflection, you are reminded of it. That is really really amazing to have that record, go back to it, and then make that learning visible that you have had over the course of time. Mark, besides the reflective element and gaining those transversal skills then what other benefits do you see students will have by creating portfolios?

Mark Brady: 15:20

comfortable. I'd shut down at exams, and I go through serious anxiety when it comes to things like exams and all of that. But I've always been very comfortable with visuals, with trying to express myself in visual form, you know, making graphics, whether it be making a video, whether it be just finding something online that really connects with something that I might have learned and might really inspire me, and I'm able to share that and then maybe give a little synopsis of what I thought of it, or what was in it, my interpretation of whatever it is. But I think the ePortfolio in the way it's presented and the platform that we're able to actually create them in offers that versatility to students to be able to tap into their strengths, but also explore areas that they might be vulnerable in or feel vulnerable in or want to develop themselves in. So not necessarily you don't have to write 1,000 words if you don't necessarily need to, but you could be a little bit more visual in it and do an infographic, you can do diagrams if you wish, or you can do pictures. Usually when the assignments of an ePortfolio are presented to us, we're given that flexibility on how we're able to present it. So basically, bottom line is students have that ability to express themselves in so many different ways. I know the platform, it lines up with Dublin City University's ethos, which is very inclusive of so many of those differences in people, but really celebrate all of those different abilities that everyone has, and giving everyone that capability to present their learning in whatever way feels comfortable to them.

Kristina Hoeppner: 17:15

Mark with that flexibility, of course, also comes quite a bit of possibilities of what you can do, how you can create your portfolio, what sort of support did you get from DCU for creating your portfolios?

Mark Brady: 17:29

So in first fear, before we actually embarked on it, we had a whole element of learning from the product owner of the platform who really looks after the platform in DCU and also the knowledge base behind it. They came down, championed it in our module and gave us a working workshop. It was very hands on, we were tasked with creating an ad hoc small portfolio in the class where they would offer different supports floating around the room. They had some other PhD students that actually came down to support round the room questions and that experience was, as I said, it was quite hands on and they showed students all the different possibilities of what they could actually do with it. So for example, the quota was one of the first things, So some of the housekeeping things were certainly covered early on, which was really good. But like even down to just educating students on you have a picture, it doesn't have to be so big, you know. You have all these tips and tricks online where you can compress them, which if you are a web designer, you would have to do anyway, and it's best practice to do so. So all of those small things that might seem very small are actually good things to know if you're getting into any sort of development or innovation or creating, especially in the online space. They went through everything, and they showed us what we could share. There didn't seem to be any major restrictions to what we could share, basically, in form of media. They really encouraged us to be creative with it and think about how we can best utilise it. We were encouraged to for example, create our own skins. I was really interested in exploring customisation and personalisation of the actual page itself.

Kristina Hoeppner: 19:24

You've done some of the most advanced editing of a page that I've seen in a long time. So it was wonderful to see how you pushed the boundary there.

Mark Brady: 19:34

Yeah, that's the thing. The space is designed for you to own it. So it's really what you want out of it, what you want to put into it, and what you'll get out of it. I know there was a lot of effort put into students using the space. So I think that's really important. From a university level, it's to really continue that encouragement of students. Like the awards, for example, the awards behind using the platform is really important. I think it's a good incentive for students to spend that bit of time doing it because it is a really beneficial experience, and it does pay off. I found myself last week looking back on the portfolio that I wrote in first year. And then I look at one I just wrote, and the changes in how I present it or speak or [laughs] you know, all of that, it's something that we don't notice in ourselves, you know, as we're going along, it is quite profound. As I said, I've been going through this surreal personal transition lately. So all of these things have been part of that.

Kristina Hoeppner: 20:39

It's wonderful that you've captured that and can then go back to that already now, but also in the future, and see how much you have grown and how this direction also helped you grow as person and that you made a good decision in changing your careers entirely. Mark, is there anything that you currently can't really do with portfolios that you would just love doing, but you haven't found out how to do that just yet?

Mark Brady: 21:06

As I said, for me, the personalisation and customisation is really something that every time I go to do a portfolio, I want to be like a step ahead of what I did the last time and challenging, a little bit more challenging. So kind of almost like a scaffold on top of the previous time that I've done it. So I suppose the boundaries of or maybe the possibility of being able to add in code, or I'm getting dangerous here [both laugh]. It don't mean like completely changing a whole platform and stuff. There was one portfolio I did last year, I wanted to keep with a team of one week that I was talking about in where I was talking about HTML. So I decided I was like, "Oh, I want to see if I can do something with HTML in this." And I could. I could actually personalise a menu, that I could put in, and I could do this little overlay effect and all of that kind of stuff. And it was really nice to spend time figuring that out, being able to put it into the portfolio and saying, "Oh, yeah, I put my little stamp on that there." So it looks different, you know? Yeah, I think those kinds of things, especially relevant to the current climate of technology at the moment, to be able to put in things like that, if there's a way that you could put in widgets or a working program or something like that, that you might have worked on that you might be able to embed something in. I know all platforms are very restricted to what the nature of the platform that they've built on, you know, even something around the HTML, CSS personalisation would be really nice.

Kristina Hoeppner: 22:48

As you've experienced, there's lots of possibilities already, but we're not allowing certain things just to prevent [laughs] that somebody can hide take the platform. But maybe there's a possibility of the program where you're building your code in that it can be embedded because that would be an easy way of using an iframe, for example, in displaying that in your portfolio. Let's see what we can do in the future for somebody who's going on to the advanced track of designing. Mark, it's been lovely talking with you and learning how you have changed personally, how you have transitioned in your thinking, what you have learned on your internship and also through all your classes being documented by your portfolio work, what are three words or short phrases that you would use to describe portfolio work?

Mark Brady: 23:37

So for me, perspective changing, or perspective adapting, reflective, definitely reflective, and upskill. As I think the process of exploring the portfolio allows you to really hone in on certain skills that you might have been developing as part of your programme, or even finding new skills through the practice of writing the portfolio.

Kristina Hoeppner: 24:01

Thank you so much for these three words. What tip do you now have for learning designers or lecturers, educators, tutors who create portfolio activities for students like you?

Mark Brady: 24:14

I think the way the instructions are designed is really important. I think that if you approach giving students very broad instructions, it might create uncertainty or confusion about what they might be able to do or even if there's a way to demonstrate the capabilities of it or maybe show students publicly and not leave it up to them. I'd say if you say "Oh, here's a link to some examples," go to that. Do it in the classroom and actually show them a little bit of other portfolios or examples of where they can actually go in. I think that would, especially for younger students, it would really benefit them and really inspire them to try and break the barrier. I just think that by just saying to them, "Oh, you have to do a portfolio or an ePortfolio," so many of them just don't understand what that is, unless they're shown some really good concrete examples, and that will enable them to, or inspire them to, probably go in and put the effort in and really allow themselves explore the benefits of it.

Kristina Hoeppner: 25:26

I will make sure to link to the DCU web page, where there are some examples from DCU students displayed so that people can check those out. Taking a look at them also I find can give you quite a bit of inspiration of what others have done what is possible, so that you might want to push that boundary as well and explore something slightly different than what you might have had in mind. Now the last piece of advice, Mark, what would you say to portfolio authors?

Mark Brady: 25:53

One big lesson for me is never leave it to the last minute. We touched on it earlier on. The best practice is - even what I'm doing at the moment, I just take voice mails even every day. I have really busy days. Sometimes I'm in the car, and I'm caught in traffic for like 30 minutes on the way home, and I have nothing else to do, so just start recording me talking[laughs] for that time. Then I'm just putting productivity into those 30 minutes where otherwise I would be so bored and exhausted, just very eager to get home. So at least I can get back and say "Okay, I've actually done an entry today," and it takes that pressure away from me. And all I need to do then later is just type it up in a few days time and revisit it. And that's that. So I think it's probably one of the biggest lessons I learned is to journal when you should journal, which is when things happen. If something really interesting happened today, take a little voice note, write down a little note if it's easier, and just as a reminder. You'll be amazed at how much you actually accumulate at the end of the week, at the end of a fortnight, at the end of a month. It gives you really good content to reflect on and to include then in your portfolio.

Kristina Hoeppner: 27:11

That's a fantastic tip. Thank you so much, Mark, for that one. And thank you all so very much for taking the time after already a very long workday for you today to have a chat and share your portfolio journey, what you have learned, and how it is helping in your study programme. Now over to our listeners. What do you want to try in your own portfolio practice? This was'Create. Share. Engage.' with Mark Brady. Head to our website podcast.mahara.org where you can find resources and the transcript for this episode. This podcast is produced by Catalyst IT, and I'm your host, Kristina Hoeppner, Project Lead and Product Manager of the portfolio platform Mahara. Our next episode will air in two weeks. I hope you'll listen again and tell a colleague about it so they can subscribe. Until then, create, share, and engage.