Kristina Hoeppner: 0:05

Welcome to'Create. Share. Engage.' This is the podcast about portfolios for learning and more for educators, learning designers, and managers keen on integrating portfolios with their education and professional development practices. 'Create. Share. Engage.' is brought to you by the Mahara team at Catalyst IT. My name is Kristina Hoeppner. Today I'm speaking with Christina Stollner and Romy Hösl from Ostbayerische Technische Hochschule Amberg-Weiden, short: OTH, which is the Technical University of Applied Sciences in Amberg-Weiden in Bavaria in Germany. They are members of the Projekt Dreiklang at their institution. This project is funded by the Stiftung Innovation in der Hochschullehre, the Foundation Innovation in Higher Education until the end of 2025. I'm happy to be able to talk with both Romy and Christina because I learned more about their project when I visited Germany, and they were talking about their case studies and all the things that they are doing. So I'm very happy to have both of them here today. Thank you so much for making time.

Christina Stollner: 1:22

Thank you, Kristina

Kristina Hoeppner: 1:23

I first met Romy online, and it's really funny because you meet a Saxon person everywhere, and so we connected on social media and so for a few years, we've been in touch, and it's always good to learn more what Romy is doing and also her team in regards to portfolios. So let's start with you then, Romy. Can you please tell us a little bit about yourself? What do you do?

Romy Hösl: 1:48

As you already mentioned, we are from the OTH Amberg-Weiden, and there I lead the Competence Centre for Digital Learning. I'm part of that so called Dreiklang project. Dreiklang is more or less a project where we create material to make the start with ePortfolios easier. Additional to this, I'm a lecturer in the master programme at our university, in the master programme 'Education and Technology'. There, I teach the courses 'Online course development' and 'AI in education'. In both courses, I use ePortfolios. Personally, I live in Weiden. That's one and a half hour away from Nürnberg and also one and a half hour away from Prague to have inside where we come from and where we are sitting today.

Kristina Hoeppner: 2:29

Thank you so much for also putting you geographically in the world to make it easier for people to know where you're at because Amberg-Weiden is probably not two towns that too many of us have heard about before.

Romy Hösl: 2:42

I wouldn't imagine[laughs].

Kristina Hoeppner: 2:44

So you do quite a lot of things, Romy, at your university. You are in research, you're the Director of the Competency Centre, and then also an instructor. How do you juggle all of that?

Romy Hösl: 2:55

I think all of the things are really integrated in each other. They make sense together. On the one hand, to be a lecturer makes it easier for me to talk to our other lecturers who work only as lecturers, to understand them and to explain that it's really useful, for instance, to use ePortfolios. When we put all together, it makes sense, and so I can handle it.

Kristina Hoeppner: 3:17

So it's a holistic view that you can then take.

Romy Hösl: 3:20

Yeah.

Kristina Hoeppner: 3:21

Nice. Christina, now over to you. Tell us a little bit about yourself. How did you get to OTH?

Christina Stollner: 3:29

Since 2021 I'm here at the OTH Amberg-Weiden. I do the project management for various projects, and one of the projects is the Project Dreiklang. I'm here in Amberg.

Kristina Hoeppner: 3:42

How far are Amberg and Weiden apart from each other?

Christina Stollner: 3:45

It's about 40 kilometres.

Kristina Hoeppner: 3:48

That's a fair amount. So hopefully your instructors and learning designers and students don't have to travel between both campuses every single day.

Romy Hösl: 3:56

No, no, they are really divided. In Weiden, we have to Weiden Business School and the business things, more or less. And in Amberg, they are much more technical. Data science is located there, for instance, and media and such things. So they are really separated.

Kristina Hoeppner: 4:11

Okay. Romy, how were you introduced to portfolios?

Romy Hösl: 4:16

I think we started in 2019 or 2020, and that's because I read an article about trends in the digitalisation of learning and higher education. There ePortfolios were mentioned, and I thought, that sounds good, I want to try it. But it wasn't so easy to start to get a system and so on. Then I found Mahara. Then I found Professor Altieri here at our university, and I discussed with him that I want to try it that we should make it happen. And he said, yes, he also wants to try it. We started, I think, in 2020.

Kristina Hoeppner: 4:52

Christina, did you get started with portfolios when you joined the project team?

Christina Stollner: 4:57

No, it was a long time before. It wasn't called portfolios. It was called in German, Kladde, and it was in my course in bachelor's degree programme Materials Engineering. My professor told us it is also a possibility to do the internship report in a better style. So there we have the chance to build a portfolio of knowledge about the materials and the technologies used in the material engineering. And it's not only a series of numbers, data and facts, but more than that. So it was a few years ago before the project, and then, of course, more intensively with the start of the project Dreiklang.

Kristina Hoeppner: 5:36

Wonderful. That's good to hear that it was in material sciences, yet another study programme to add to our list of where portfolios have been used. Christina, do you then remember what type of portfolio you were keeping? Was it more portfolio for yourself or more for those internships primarily? Or did you also use it for showcase purposes?

Christina Stollner: 5:58

Yeah, it was more for the internship really.

Kristina Hoeppner: 6:01

Cool. Both of you have been working with portfolios for quite a while. Why are you advocating for the practice? Why do you want your students and instructors to know about it? Romy, do you want to make a start?

Romy Hösl: 6:15

Portfolios make learning more or less visible. That's why I like them. They are not just final results, like in a normal exam at the end of the course, I really can see the learning process. That's why I like it. And I can change the way of teaching when I see, okay, maybe they don't understand what I try to explain them or something like that. So I really have a feedback during the course. EPortfolios can combine something like reflection, reflective writing, and also active knowledge creation. When you use ePortfolios, they can use different media and so on. There are a lot of different ways how I can use ePortfolios in my lessons. So I also like the flexibility.

Kristina Hoeppner: 6:58

What type of ePortfolio do you use primarily with your students, Romy?

Romy Hösl: 7:03

I use a mix. It's always hard for me, or I think it's hard to say it's a reflection portfolio, it's a competence portfolio. It's a combination. I combine reflection portfolios, or portfolios where they can reflect what they learn when I'm explaining something, I also use them for little showcases, I give them tasks, and they have to create the ePortfolio about the task or about the topic. But in the last two years, I call it project portfolios, more or less, because I have a lot of practical stuff they have to do. They always have a project they are working on in my course, and then they use the ePortfolio to show their progress during the project, to reflect on the project if they want to do it in another way the next time, and so on. And also, they have a map about all their meetings and what they discuss that they really use it as a project book with parts of reflection at the end.

Kristina Hoeppner: 7:58

That is awesome to hear that you're using so many different ways of engaging your students with the portfolio. You mentioned earlier that you are also teaching a course on artificial intelligence, and you're having your students do portfolios. Can you give us a little glimpse inside that area? Do your students use AI in their portfolios themselves for reflective purposes or how do you combine the two?

Romy Hösl: 8:25

It's also a project documentation in that case. They're allowed to use AI to fill their portfolio, of course. The main task in the course is that they have to create a learning media with AI, and then they have to use the ePortfolio to reflect what they would do if they don't use AI, what they would do in another way when they can use extra things, not only AI, and then they reflect on their created media in the portfolio. There they can also use AI to create the text and create pictures, but the main thing is the media, and then they should reflect around it with the portfolio. The good thing is that they really can integrate their video or their podcast in the ePortfolio, and then they can really reflect on their product.

Kristina Hoeppner: 9:15

Do your students also use AI for their reflections?

Romy Hösl: 9:18

They can use a chatbot, especially in that course because the topic is AI. A colleague, Mike Altieri, I already mentioned him, he is using Riff in his course, also supported by the project Dreiklang, where they use really AI Riff chatbot to fill in their reflection part in the portfolio.

Kristina Hoeppner: 9:39

That's awesome to hear. So I should at some point also talk with Mike then because we've been talking about Riff a fair bit in some webinars because it is quite different to other large language model chatbots since it doesn't give you any answers, it asks you questions, and therefore takes you deeper into the reflection. Christina, do you have anything to add on why are you advocating for the use of portfolios?

Christina Stollner: 10:06

I wanted to add to the Riff bot. We also have, in Mike Altieri's courses, the possibility that the students have questions to reflect their own work. And on the other hand, the Riff bot. The Riff bot is a little bit easier to get in touch with reflection because it is not the usual way that students can reflect their own learnings, and Riff makes it a little bit easier to get started with this uncomfortable way of reflecting, and that is the better way for the first time. EPortfolios are a very good way, not only to reflect one time because the process is a little bit longer, usually, to reflect your work most of the time, few semesters long, and you have the chance to add your thoughts about the knowledge you've learned in the ePortfolio semester to semester. So I think that is also a very good possibility for your learning portfolio.

Romy Hösl: 10:59

That's a good point because from my point of view, they really have to learn how to reflect. They don't have the skill when they come to us. They really have a process. And at start of their master studies, they always, 'Oh, I have to reflect all that. I have better things to do.' And at the end of their study time, they say,'Okay, I really learned something, and it really was useful.' It's really a process they are going through during their study time.

Kristina Hoeppner: 11:25

Christina, what have you found makes it easier for the students to get started with reflection when they use Riff, so when it is the chatbot asking you questions?

Christina Stollner: 11:36

Because they first can start what they've learned, and afterwards, Riff asks you questions about what you wrote down. Riff goes deeper in the work, and it helps you question these things. You needn't decide as a student, do I want to go here deeper or there deeper? Riff will question you what you've learned. Then there's the possibility to question in different ways. It's not only one way thinking how we maybe usually want to in a normal way. It's also thinking in various ways and directions.

Kristina Hoeppner: 12:09

I find it really nice because it has a

reflection model built in: 12:11

What? So what? Now what? And then it also personalises the questions for you so that it is easy for the students to just get started with the summary, which is the easy bit, and then being taken further into the reflection, into the activity, based on what they had said before, so really taking their context into consideration. Do you also have a case study for that use already that we could link to in the episode?

Christina Stollner: 12:40

Yeah, we have use cases, and of course, on the one hand, the course'Multimediadidaktik' of Mike Altieri, and that is one which is also in the starter kit. So there are examples for that.

Kristina Hoeppner: 12:52

Awesome. You've already mentioned starter kit. So it is time for us to talk about your project Dreiklang. We were kind of wondering earlier on what the best way would be to translate it into English, and the best translation was to use 'triad' because it is Dreiklang, three for 'drei' and 'Klang' as kind of tones so that we have three parts work in unison or can be heard together. Christina, can you please share your project goals with us? Romy had already mentioned them very briefly in the beginning, but let's dig a little deeper there.

Christina Stollner: 13:31

Dreiklang is a joint project founded by the Stiftung Innovation in der Hochschullehre, and it's between our university, OTH Amberg-Weiden, and the University Arnsbach. The name came from because we want to make the potential of ePortfolios more usable for the lecturers and the students within a triad of theory, communication, and concrete application. So we have, on the one hand, the theory part, the documentation, what we found out, what chances we see in ePortfolios, what are the stones in the way to get through to use ePortfolios. Then get that all together, find the right communication for our target group. So we have, on the one hand lecturers, we have on the other hand the students to show them what ePortfolios could build, what you can create with them, and then have this concrete application of ePortfolio in your studies, in your didactics, with the help of our starter kit. There are a lot of learning materials in it that will help for the first step to build ePortfolios in your studies.

Kristina Hoeppner: 14:36

You already mentioned that it is a project funded by the Stiftung Innovation in der Hochschullehre, and it started in August 2021, and you still have a few months to go until the end of 2025. Looking at your project website, there are quite a few project members included, which is fantastic to see and is also reflected in the number of resources that you have created and also the publications that you have done. Who had the idea to apply for this project? Was that Mike Altieri?

Romy Hösl: 15:12

It was Mike who had the idea. We started to work with ePortfolios, and at the same time, the Stiftung Innovation in der Hochschullehre had a call for projects, and then it was a good combination. We had a chance to get personnel, to have time to work on it.

Kristina Hoeppner: 15:26

How do you think you're going with reaching your goals?

Romy Hösl: 15:30

We still have to finalise some things. We are really good, I think, with what is the starter kit. The Starter kit is more or less a kit which makes the adoption for other universities, for other teachers, easier to start with portfolios.

Kristina Hoeppner: 15:45

What is included in the starter kit? Because it sounds small, but it's actually massive of what you have put together.

Romy Hösl: 15:51

Yeah, it's really big. There are really a lot of self learning modules. How to start from a student perspective, how to start from an educator perspective, how to start from administrative perspective. There are a lot of templates for portfolios for reflection, for portfolios for project cases, some guides, and workshop material and a lot of hands on materials. That was very important, that really you can start to use ePortfolios. My favourite part, to be honest, is the use case part because we are collected a lot of use cases from colleagues and also our own use cases to really make visible how ePortfolios can be used in different learning scenarios. We are still collecting, and hopefully we are collecting also after the project ends. Everybody can just write as a mail. It's a Moodle course at the end with a lot of materials in it with a Creative Commons license, so everybody can use it for their own lessons, for their own introduction. That's our main goal at the end of the project, and there we have collected a lot of things. One goal we still have, and we're still working on is the connection between the people who are using ePortfolios in Germany, maybe also worldwide. We have created an online map where everybody can check in and say, 'I'm using ePortfolios,' and looking for other people who are using ePortfolios so that we keep the community alive and let the community grow.

Kristina Hoeppner: 17:22

One part of that was last November that we've met at Hochschule München and had a wonderful gathering where you also presented on your project, and we also heard a number of stories from other institutions. I find these exchanges really, really wonderful and very fruitful because that's when we get to see what others are doing, what we might want to do ourselves, and with whom to connect. What I'm also hearing from what you said, Romy, in regards to the resources that you create, it's very practically oriented so that people can get started immediately. You have a whole bunch of checklists for instructors, for students, for the administrators, the management of a study programme so that they can ask the right questions to get started and also make the portfolio project a successful one. On the other hand, you are also doing research, which is exemplified by the number of articles that have been published as part of your overall Projekt Dreiklang. What sort of feedback have you received from your educators and your students in regards to the resources that you've been creating? Romy, you mentioned that you really like the case studies and also the samples. Have they been taken on favourably by your community at OTH?

Romy Hösl: 18:49

We created a lot of use cases out of our lecturers at the OTH. They like it, I think, because their use cases are in there [laughs]. For instance, we had a workshop, I think, last year with also participants from other universities. There we showed our use cases and asked them to think about their own use cases, and they really liked the approach and gave the feedback that you really liked the hands on practical way that they really see how they can use it for their learning scenarios and that it's not so theoretical, but theoretical founded. We are still collecting. We are in contact with other universities. For instance, last week, the University of Hof sent one of their use cases to us because they have a good use case where they also combine the internship with the theoretical part.

Christina Stollner: 19:38

What we also see the last years that more than the work inside the university, the ePortfolios were strongly centred around the didactic centres of each university. We also started to add materials from other universities to really have a good collection.

Kristina Hoeppner: 19:57

You've been publishing a number of case studies, and you've just mentioned that you're now also collecting more case studies from other institutions that are working with portfolios so that you can give a really wide range of how portfolios can be used with students and also staff. Have you noticed any trends of how portfolio work is done in Germany right now?

Romy Hösl: 20:21

AI is important topic, we have to deal with. And so I think reflection is becoming more important because when you use AI you need to reflect more, I think, to reflect on the results the AI gives you and so on. Portfolios are really important as assessment tool in times of AI and education to really be part of the learning process and reflect on the learning process. That's one trend I see that ePortfolios become more and more an assessment tool to really have a constructive alignment access to education and not have the big bang at the end, really have the learning process there to support the personal learning process. But I also have seen in the last year to actively integrate more video content into ePortfolios.

Kristina Hoeppner: 21:10

Video content by the students or by the instructor?

Romy Hösl: 21:13

By the students to go with the influencer style so that they have videos as part of the reflection that the people just talk about what they have learned. I really like it.

Kristina Hoeppner: 21:23

Christina, have you noticed anything over time?

Christina Stollner: 21:26

On the one hand, the lecturers are searching for templates, materials, which they can personalise afterwards. A lot of lecturers came to us, 'Do you have any templates or examples that I can have for my lesson?' On the other hand, like Romy said, KI (AI) is very important. But also lecturers are searching for ways that they can use ePortfolios and do their exams and afterwards, prove (grade) the ePortfolios in a very fast way. It is more important to do ePortfolio work faster that they don't need so much time to create an ePortfolio to know what learning goals they want to have in their course, which is using ePortfolios as an examination tool. And then afterwards, that lecturer has not to spend too much time on the ePortfolios.

Kristina Hoeppner: 22:16

One of the projects that is looking into that how to support lectures giving feedback on portfolios is the one that also OTH was involved in, together with PH Weingarten, the AISOP project where it was looked at for the feedback and how that can be given on portfolios and also used to aggregate what students had written across a particular seminar and then give the instructors some guidance on hand of what they wanted to do next.

Christina Stollner: 22:47

In our web-based trainings, we also have examples for examination so that lecturers and didactic people can see how we are doing our examinations at OTH Amberg-Weiden. There are more than two examples for that. So one, in a way that's not so time intensive and another, what is stronger because there's also a grade behind it that the students will get after they work with the ePortfolios.

Kristina Hoeppner: 23:14

Yeah. Romy, you mentioned that you like that portfolios now have more video content, influencer style like. Is there anything missing for you in portfolio practice that you'd like to see more of in the future?

Romy Hösl: 23:30

I like collaborative approaches, so where really people work together and develop material together. I think that fostering co-creation and shared reflection would be a good way. One part I'm missing is the institutional support. We have often a lack of that in our universities. More personnel, more people for administrative, structural, and technical assistance at the end for the educators would be nice.

Kristina Hoeppner: 23:57

Christina, does anything come to mind for you?

Christina Stollner: 24:00

It's of course, the support to the lecturers about the ePortfolio work. On the one hand, the technical support. We use Mahara at our universities. And behind that the system can work, then need to be a good IT. You need them to build such a portfolio work at the university. On the other hand, one inspiring moment we had about a year ago, a student of us created her own template. She saw how we show her how she could do it in her course, and then afterwards, she decided which way is the best for her to learn all the stuff in the course, and then implemented her own template. That was very inspiring because it was the first time for us to see that students think about their own learning process and then create such a great template for the whole semester.

Kristina Hoeppner: 24:50

It's wonderful to see that the students do take it then further from what they have learned from you, in regards to reflect, in regards to working together, feedback, and so on, and how they can make better use of the portfolio then also for themselves. We are nearing the end, therefore our quick answer round with three questions for each of you. Christina, let's start with you, please. Which words or short phrases do you use to describe portfolio work?

Christina Stollner: 25:19

For me, it's creating a canvas for your own thoughts, reflection, and the knowledge that you acquired in the lessons in a very sustainable way.

Kristina Hoeppner: 25:29

Thank you. Romy, what is it for you?

Romy Hösl: 25:32

To learn how to reflect, the reflection part, then to learn how to learn, the growth part, more or less, and then at the end, co-creation is, for me, an important topic when we talk about ePortfolios.

Kristina Hoeppner: 25:45

Romy, let's continue with you. What tip do you have for learning designers or instructors who create portfolio activities?

Romy Hösl: 25:54

Start simple, maybe with only one part or one activity to reflect or so on. Integrate really regular reflection in your courses and really integrate the ePortfolio work. Make it visible and encourage collaboration.

Kristina Hoeppner: 26:11

For the integration of regular reflection time, do you have a tip for that? Is it kind of on a weekly basis, monthly basis, what has been working for you?

Romy Hösl: 26:23

It depends on the structure. But I would say not every week, maybe two weeks, or something like that. It really depends how you make your lesson. Make it visible. Share it in the lecture. Make it visible for all. Reflection is important, and that you really have a look into it, and that you really, as a lecturer, also want to see the reflection.

Kristina Hoeppner: 26:45

That's then also where your co-creation comes in, where you share what you have done, reflected on, and then discuss it in groups. Christina, what is your tip for learning designers and educators?

Christina Stollner: 26:57

Have a look at our starter kit [Christina and Kristina laugh].

Kristina Hoeppner: 27:00

Yes. Very importantly [laughs].

Christina Stollner: 27:03

There are a lot of templates, learning materials, use cases for inspiration, so have a look at it [laughs].

Kristina Hoeppner: 27:10

Yeah, and for those of you who do not speak German, your browser typically gives you the option to translate the text on the page directly. So you will still get a good idea of what the content is and what's in the templates. Now, Christina, for your last question, what advice do you have for portfolio authors?

Christina Stollner: 27:33

Don't think too long to start. Just do your first entry. And then when you think about what is important for you and wrote it down after that process, look at it and think about the structure. Do you find everything what you wanted to be written down there? Will you find it a few years later also? So if you're on a bachelor degree course, then it is good to make the notes that way that you will find it in a few semesters later as well because when you do the bachelor thesis or later the master thesis, it would be good to have it written down in a very good, understandable way. If you found out it is necessary, then rebuild it, maybe do a template for more courses and then add further material. That will help you to understand what you've learned and to answer questions that came up while reflecting the process. Like Romy said, videos, graphics, PDFs, and so on.

Kristina Hoeppner: 28:26

Thank you. And now Romy, what is your advice for portfolio authors?

Romy Hösl: 28:31

At the beginning, I really had a discussion with the students. They want to have templates because they want to have a formula. And I discussed with them maybe one has more knowledge because he's already working for years in his job, and another one got his bachelor last week, and now he's starting his master's thesis. So you really have a different way of learning. So really create your own templates because everyone has their own way of learning. And my tip for educators and also for students is to discuss this way of learning and find the right way to bring it into an ePortfolio.

Kristina Hoeppner: 29:03

Fantastic. And I think what I do want to stress here is that both of you said that the students could and also should create their own templates because so far, we've typically only talked about educators or learning designers creating templates for the students. But what you're saying is that students can do the same as well to structure their learning once they've realised, yes, this is what works for me, to stay on top of reflection.

Romy Hösl: 29:28

Yep.

Kristina Hoeppner: 29:29

Thank you so much, Christina and Romy for taking me a little bit into your project, Projekt Dreiklang, that has created a wealth of resources for the entire community, where we can read up so many case studies, learn how you're using portfolios, see practical examples, but then also be taken into the theory. I wish you all the best for the remaining few months of your project and look forward to hearing more about it.

Romy Hösl: 29:58

Thanks.

Christina Stollner: 29:59

Thank you, Kristina.

Kristina Hoeppner: 30:01

Now over to our listeners, what do you want to try in your own portfolio practice? This was 'Create. Share. Engage.' with Romy Hösl and Christina Stollner. Head to our website podcast.mahara.org where you can find resources and the transcript for this episode. This podcast is produced by Catalyst IT, and I'm your host, Kristina Hoeppner, Project Lead and Product Manager of the portfolio platform Mahara. Our next episode will air in two weeks. I hope you will listen again and tell a colleague about our podcast so they can subscribe. Until then, create, share, and engage.