Kristina Hoeppner: 0:04

Welcome to'Create. Share. Engage.' This is the podcast about portfolios for learning and more for educators, learning designers, and managers keen on integrating portfolios with their education and professional development practices. 'Create. Share. Engage.' is brought to you by the Mahara team at Catalyst IT. My name is Kristina Hoeppner. In this episode, we are talking about nursing portfolios. I'm excited that I can speak with Associate Professor Dr Jaye Ryan from Birmingham City University in the UK. We've met a little over 10 years ago in November 2015 at Mahara Hui UK, which, at that time was held at Southampton Solent University in Southampton. Back then, Jaye was already heavily involved in the portfolio practice at BCU in the Bachelor of Science in Nursing. I love that we could find a time to chat, Jaye.

Jaye Ryan: 1:01

I'm so happy that we've managed to get the time, too.

Kristina Hoeppner: 1:04

I'd very much like to congratulate you on having completed all your work for your Doctorate in Education just very recently. Congratulations. Dr Jaye Ryan.

Jaye Ryan: 1:14

Oh, thank you. That's so kind. Thank you, Kristina.

Kristina Hoeppner: 1:17

Jaye, can you please tell us what your role is at BCU?

Jaye Ryan: 1:22

I'm an Associate Professor in the Department for Midwifery and Child Health, and I run a blended nursing module in an MSc course.

Kristina Hoeppner: 1:32

Do you remember when you started using portfolios?

Jaye Ryan: 1:36

I do. Do you know sometimes when you forget how long ago something was? 2010 - that's when we started. So that is such a long time ago.

Kristina Hoeppner: 1:46

That is amazing that it's been a little over 15 years now already.

Jaye Ryan: 1:51

Yeah.

Kristina Hoeppner: 1:51

That also shows how much work has gone into your work and how you've really embedded it into the programme.

Jaye Ryan: 1:58

Absolutely.

Kristina Hoeppner: 2:00

Between 2010 and 2019 you led the Mahara portfolio initiative at BCU within the Bachelor of Science in Nursing course. Why did you decide to start incorporating Mahara into that course at the time?

Jaye Ryan: 2:15

Prior to 2010 we would have been following the Nursing and Midwifery Council(NMC) 2004 guidelines. In 2010 they changed. So the standards for pre-registration was amended and updated, and back in 2004 our students used to produce portfolios, and they were the old fashioned hardback portfolios. They would have one per year. Well, most students had one per year. Some students would just try and put everything into one folder. But because a three-year course is quite long, and the students were collecting lots of evidence from practice, things that they'd done, certificates that they'd gained, their grades, feedback on their assessments, and looking at how they developed over the three years. So we did have some students that would have a large lever arch folder per year. That's a lot for them to carry around.

Kristina Hoeppner: 3:10

Did you then also have a cupboard at the university where you put all of the folders and binders and make them secure?

Jaye Ryan: 3:17

Thankfully, the students owned them. So the students would bring all of this into campus each time that we would see them, and we would sign certain information off to say that they'd kept it up to date, that kind of thing. Now that was actually an NMC requirement, so it was something that they needed to do. So when we had the update in 2010, the NMC said, 'We no longer require student nurses to keep portfolios because it's just a change that we're going through, but we do expect them, obviously, to continue with their professional development.' So at the time, our Head of School decided that the portfolios were really important for personal development, and they decided to continue with them, but they would no longer be hard backed and sort of actual contents that they bring in, but that we would stretch to ePortfolios. At the time, the university were in a contract with Mahara, and we already had this system set up, but it was something that sat in the background, and it was something that if you mentioned it to staff or students, they'd say, 'Oh, I've heard of Mahara, and I know it's an ePortfolio system, but I've never used it.' So everyone, as soon as you had a BCU email account, whether it was a staff account or a student account, you would, by default, have a space in Mahara. But people didn't really know that. So it was brand new, but we were writing it into our curriculum so it was there. So we were going to be using it as of 2010 that is scary [both laugh].

Kristina Hoeppner: 4:57

Oh no, it's not scary. It's actually really, really good.

Jaye Ryan: 5:00

It was scary.

Kristina Hoeppner: 5:03

Must have been scary getting to know a new system and implementing all the criteria and what you wanted to have with students.

Jaye Ryan: 5:11

Absolutely.

Kristina Hoeppner: 5:12

Interesting that the Nursing and Midwifery Council decided against portfolios because in New Zealand, they've also had the paper-based portfolios first and then the electronic ones were embraced because that practice still needed to be demonstrated, professional development and growth needed to be shown.

Jaye Ryan: 5:31

2010 was a little bit of a weird time for nursing pre-registration because the 2010 guidance from the NMC was quite short lived, and they rewrote and added more changes in 2014. So it was quite a short period for guidelines and standards to be put in place. We then began to consider revalidation, and revalidation was very much portfolio-based, but the NMC weren't really strict as to what kind of portfolio you would keep as a registered nurse, whether you wanted to set up your own electronic portfolio, whether you wanted to subscribe to a company-kept ePortfolio, or whether you wanted to go old fashioned, old school and have a hard-backed portfolio. They were very vague as to how you would do it, but definitely from 2014 with revalidation in place, similar to yourself, Kristina, there was a need for a demonstration of that ongoing professional development in some capacity. But we stayed with the ePortfolio because it was amazing.

Kristina Hoeppner: 6:36

What then were the components of the portfolio that the students created?

Jaye Ryan: 6:41

Although we decided that this was going to be part of their curriculum, I must hold my hand up and I'll say we had a vague idea. I'd say year one was quite clear what we wanted to do. Year two and year three was a bit of a work in progress. We had not considered the training that the students and the staff more so would need in order to be able to maintain their own portfolio. I think we considered that if we got IT support, they would tell them what to do, they'd have some guidance to follow, and it would work. But it didn't. It was really, really difficult. So the first component that we expected our students to do was to create what we called an introductory page, and it was an opportunity for the students to introduce themselves to their personal tutor. Throughout the BSc Nursing programme, all students have access to a personal tutor, literally from day one. So we saw that as a really good opportunity for the students to get started with their ePortfolio and create a page that we called 'About me'. They would share some information, they would upload a photograph of themselves, and the only guidance we gave them was obviously to keep the photograph professional. So some of them would wait until they got their uniforms, which was one of the proudest moments for any student nurse, the day that you receive your uniform, and you've got your shoes and you've got your name badge and you've got your stripes that you can sew onto your uniform. So we had a lot of students that would wait until they got their uniform, and they would take a full length photograph of themselves, and they would attach that to the page. They would put some information about themselves, whether they were living at home or whether they were living in halls. They would talk about their hobbies, their interests, and at that point, they would probably share another photograph of themselves, whether it was doing horse riding or playing netball or something that they had particular interest in. So they really wanted to share something about themselves, so that their personal tutors, hopefully, would start to build that relationship with them that is so important throughout the three years. So that was the first page. A lot of students could do it, Kristina. The guidance that we gave them was okay for the majority, but we did have some students that really struggled with the technology. I'm not sure if you remember that when I first met you, back in 2015, one of the biggest problems that I spoke about relentlessly was the version of Mahara that we were using. Do you remember?

Kristina Hoeppner: 9:28

Yeah, you were on a pretty old one at the time, if I may say so [both laugh].

Jaye Ryan: 9:33

It was, I can't even remember how old it was, Kristina, but it was so old and it was very clunky. When I used to go to the conferences and see you present, you'd be presenting all these amazing things that you could do with Mahara, and I'd be looking at my version on my laptop and going, we can't do that. Why can't we do that? A lot of the things that we wanted the students to do, we had to create a workaround. We had to adapt and make it work as best as we could because that was all we had at the time. So we did involve IT quite early on to support the students, but again, I hadn't appreciated that as they continue to use the ePortfolio, it needed to be connected to some content within their nursing course. That's when I really became the lead for ePortfolio, and I had to align content within the nursing course to the portfolio and consider which aspects of it could be demonstrated and used to show their personal development when they met with their personal tutors.

Kristina Hoeppner: 10:42

So that the students could then also see,'Ah, this is why I'm doing that. I'm not just doing it as an extra bit.'

Jaye Ryan: 10:48

Absolutely.

Kristina Hoeppner: 10:49

Were these portfolios then also assessed?

Jaye Ryan: 10:52

That's such a difficult question.

Kristina Hoeppner: 10:54

Oh, did I open Pandora's Box [both laugh]?

Jaye Ryan: 10:57

Yes, you have. They were a requirement. I think a lot of this requirement came from the old NMC 2004 requirement, and that was that a student nurse throughout their three years had to show professional continuing development. They had to show that they were improving, that they were acting on the feedback that they were given, whether that was academic feedback or whether it was feedback in practice, we wanted to see that ongoing, continuing development. When we had the ePortfolio, we had a bit of a split camp. So we had a lot of personal tutors that were 'I want my student to do this. I expect it to be done in this particular way. I want to see that they are continuing to develop.' So I put together some guidelines with regards to what a particular page was going to show at the point that they were going to meet their personal tutor. That was quite easy. A lot of personal tutors would look at the page and they'd go, 'Yeah, they've done a really good job. They've uploaded their grades, they've talked about their assessments, they've talked about what they've been doing in practice, they've written a piece of reflection. I'm happy with that.' Then we had the other camp, whereby we had personal tutors that like, 'Do you know what? The NMC don't really want a portfolio any more. I can see my students grades on another system. I can see that they're passing. They're passing in practice. So if they want to do a page for me, that's fine. If they don't, that's equally fine.' So we got a little bit of mixed messages. It was always an area of contention. It was always an area that was very difficult to lock down. So one of my roles and responsibilities was to consider it from continuing development and that professionalism, that was my stance. And on that basis, a lot of students were very conscientious and continued to do it. We'd always get a few students that were like, 'I can't do it. It doesn't work for me. And my personal tutor says, I don't have to, so I'm not going to.'

Kristina Hoeppner: 13:06

It can be hard if it's a requirement, but it doesn't really count for anything or for much...

Jaye Ryan: 13:10

Yeah, and that's exactly where we were.

Kristina Hoeppner: 13:13

... because then it does feel a bit more like a chore that is not valued, especially if your tutor says,'Well, I don't really care.'

Jaye Ryan: 13:20

Yeah, really difficult.

Kristina Hoeppner: 13:22

So for the students who had a tutor who was behind the portfolio and who valued it, who said, 'Yes, this is important for your professional development,' how did these students perceive the portfolio work? Did they at some point come to the realisation,'Oh, this is actually helping me in my practice'?

Jaye Ryan: 13:41

They did, and they continued to use it. It became quite clear to me, I'd say, probably about by 2011 / 2012 that for these students that were really keen, and they could see the vision that I had because the final page that all the students, again, were advised, encouraged [laughs] to produce, was called an'Employability page'. They could see the whole schedule in front of them, so they knew what they were expected to do in year one, year two and year three. For those that were really keen, they were very much focusing on this employability page. This was where you would use your Mahara ePortfolio to demonstrate to a potential employer your skills and attributes in addition to the standardised programme that you would come out with. We were really trying to encourage students to put their best self in their portfolio. We had a number of students that would be volunteers within the community, which is excellent. That's really good. We had a lot of students that would gain certificates for things that they did outside of university and outside of the course, but those skills and attributes were still really important to the career that they'd chosen, which was nursing. So they would be involved in fundraising. They would be student representatives, they would be student ambassadors. They would be involved in open days, and they would talk to prospective students and their families and talk about how they enjoyed the course and what they got from it. Those students were the ones that were looking forward to creating an employability page because they recognised that it would give them added value because not all students would be completing their course and would have something additional to showcase, and we almost refer to it as a showcase. Show your employer everything that is extra about you. So you're not just a BCU BSc on nursing student with a first class honours degree. You've got more as well. So it was that added value.

Kristina Hoeppner: 16:00

That also makes them then stand apart because everybody else would have had the coursework. Brandi Gilbert, actually, just in a recent podcast interview, said that she's using the portfolios for internships in Life Health Sciences, and the portfolio helps the students stand out, helps personalise the experiences, so that they can show off their whole person and all that they've achieved, and the extra bits, so that they have that added value as well, and not just a standard résumé that everybody else has exactly the same one.

Jaye Ryan: 16:35

Absolutely. And that's exactly what we wanted to do. These students that were so keen, we would notice that other students would migrate towards them. So they would be like,'How have you done this with your page? And how have you got your page to look like this? And how did you manage to change the colour?' Because even changing the colour on the version that we had was hard. That's the situation that they were in. When I think back to what it was like, the students did really well, they did exceptionally well. What I did was I approached one of the Deans at the university, and I asked for some money[laughs], and I said, 'I've got a really good idea. I think we can use these students that are very keen and are very good at what they do to help those that are struggling. If I've got a little bit of money, we may be able to pay them in some way.' And we did have a scheme within the university. It was an opportunity for students to seek employment within the university. They would be paid a small fee for doing open days, they will be paid for working in the student union shop, and for mine, they were paid to be student academic mentors. Do you remember the STAMPs - Student Academic Mentors Portfolio? So they worked with me. And before the podcast, I was looking back at some of the files of the students. Some of them are now working as lecturers. They've got amazing jobs. They set up their own Moodle course with a booking system that was available to all students, and students would go in and they would book into slots. And I managed to block book a small IT room that had 20 computers in there. The students would run these sessions themselves, and the students who were booked, they would turn up. They would tick off that they'd turned up for their meeting, their appointments, and it would be a 45-minute slot with 10 minutes at the end for questions. And they would guide them through the process. They would work the room. They would sit down with them. They would do one-to-ones for those that had come along to get support. When they understood what they were doing, they would go and sit with another student and help another student. It was almost like a community of practice whereby they all got together and helped each other. People talk about the STAMPs, the Student Academic Mentors, even today.

Kristina Hoeppner: 19:06

Do you still have them?

Jaye Ryan: 19:08

We don't. The course has changed so much. We've now got new standards, and the ePortfolio isn't part of it.

Kristina Hoeppner: 19:18

In general, portfolios are really, really good for programmatic assessment, so that you can see that it's not just in one isolated course that the students use portfolios and need to demonstrate their competencies and skills, but really throughout an entire programme, and tracking that in a very formative way, so that students also get something out of it. So hopefully it'll make it back into the course.

Jaye Ryan: 19:44

I hope so because that was what we were looking at. We really wanted the upgrade so that we could use this competency framework.

Kristina Hoeppner: 19:53

Yep, that had just come out, and I so wanted to upgrade you directly in Southampton [inaudible, both laugh]. There's lots more good functionality in there. I mean, you did mention the continuing professional development activities that students needed to track those, there's a big enhancement that went into Mahara 25.04 that would help with that, make it very convenient to track those hours, collect additional information on it. There are easier ways than we had in 2015 to support the competency portfolios and also tracking of standards and the like. Jaye, do you know what impact the portfolios had on the overall student experience? Kind of looking at the students that did do their portfolios, you had already mentioned, they saw the benefits, and they really enjoyed also having that showcase page where they could show off and demonstrate what they had done, not just as part of their regular study programme, but also within the community and beyond. Does anything stand out for you in regards to that impact that portfolios contributed to what the students felt at the university?

Jaye Ryan: 21:06

I think it helped them to develop their confidence. Within the nursing course at the university, we have a number of students that will enter via a variety of different widening participation initiatives. So these will be students that start their nursing course without what we consider to be traditional A levels, traditional university qualifications. They may come in with BTECs or those kinds of things. And sometimes these students may have had a break in their learning, and by default, we then consider them to be mature purely because they've had that break in learning. And it's like, 'Wow, I'm 22 and I'm a mature student.' It's more to do with how they've come back into education. I think this also means that a lot of students that have come through this route into nursing, some of them can lack confidence. It's often confidence in that academic ability. They may have been working within a health or caring profession before they came to do their nursing course, and they have life experiences and work experiences that give them confidence within that side of the course, but the academic side, and being at university, they sometimes feel a little bit lost. Using an ePortfolio to document their journey really helps them to reflect on how they are developing. It gives them an opportunity to upload their feedback sheets and to reflect on the feedback that was given, and then have a look at the feedback sheet that they had for their next assessment and compare them and possibly think, 'Oh wow, that one said that I wasn't demonstrating much critical thinking, but this feedback sheet, six months later on my next assignment, says that I'm starting to develop critical thinking skills. And it's like, right, okay, so the support that I had from the library and the support that I had from the academic development department, and the tutorials that I had during the module are really making a difference.'

Kristina Hoeppner: 23:17

Because they can see their growth.

Jaye Ryan: 23:20

Absolutely. That is so important. The first years can really struggle, and then they get to those middle years where you're a bit sort of, you're not new, but you're not quite ready to qualify, and it's a bit of a vague area. And I think using the ePortfolio gives them an opportunity to continue to reflect, continue to plan what they want to do, plan where they can see their strengths or their limitations. What are they going to do about that. How are they going to develop those skills? How are they going to be ready for level six? How are they going to be ready for being newly qualified? What additional things can they do? Having all of their thoughts, their ideas, their development in one place, really helps them. It helps them to focus. Rather than getting that feedback sheet and having looked at it once on Moodle and not being happy with the grade or the feedback and the comments, basically never looking at it again because that is quite easily an option. When you've got a portfolio, you download it and you put it in your portfolio, and you can see your journey whereas a lot of students lose sight of their journey because it sits within separate Moodle courses and just gets left unless they decide to print it off for themselves. And if it's not good, you generally don't print it off, do you? You just leave it there.

Kristina Hoeppner: 24:44

And then at some point, the Moodle course might be emptied or deleted, you lose access to it, and then you don't remember that so easily, or you might remember it, but might remember it incorrectly whereas yeah, if you have it in the portfolio, you have it right there, that visualisation of the progress.

Jaye Ryan: 25:01

Yeah, which I think is so important.

Kristina Hoeppner: 25:04

Yeah. So Jaye, where would you like to take portfolios in nursing education if you were the boss again?

Jaye Ryan: 25:11

I mean, our students have now got an ePad. So they no longer have paper documents for practice, so it's all electronic. It'd be really nice if we could integrate an ePortfolio into that as well. So the ePad is quite task focused, if that makes sense. So you know, have they done this? Tick. Have they had this meeting? Tick. And then a few comments and another tick. Whereas an ePortfolio adds depth to those ticks. You get a wider breakdown of what those ticks represent rather than having to rely on the overall comments that I think sometimes can be quite detached from the student, possibly. But I think with an ePortfolio, it becomes student owned as well. Whereas they don't really own their ePad. It's more of a course requirement and a practice requirement. It is used as a tool to communicate, but I still think it doesn't have any individuality about it, like with the ePortfolios. The ePortfolios are student owned. And I think it's really important that students have something that they own throughout the course. They don't really have anything.

Kristina Hoeppner: 26:23

Kind of goes back to what you had said earlier, that, yes, they go through all the course requirements. So the ePad is that requirement, everybody has it, everybody's looks somewhat similar, maybe some ticks more here, some ticks more there, but that personal element is missing.

Jaye Ryan: 26:40

That's key to your student identity and your professional identity because you are so much more than a student nurse, and you will become so much more than a nurse. You have your values, your morals, you have life outside of nursing. And a lot of the times, the person that you are outside of the uniform is what makes you the person within that uniform. So it's important that you have an opportunity to express and to share and see that development in something that is not controlled by an organisation. One of the things that we always used to say to the students is that although we do have some templates that you can use, and we do have guidance, and we do talk about professionalism and accountability, within your ePortfolio, it's yours. It belongs to you. You decide what you put in it. You decide whether you want it to look pink[laughs], whether you want it to have a dark background. You decide on what you want it to look like because it represents you as an individual. Within that, it will have its professional elements. Within it, it will also have some of your skills and attributes within nursing, but also outside of the nursing profession. If I had an opportunity to bring it back, based on some of the things that you've mentioned and reminding me about the competencies and some of the other things that you also mentioned that have the similarities with the ePad, I'd so want to bring it back. It was such an exciting time. It was so innovative. I know that it would be so much easier to use now. A lot of people now use their iPhones and their tablets and their Androids, and all of those devices are quite intuitive, and they know the next step. They know that if you go into your contacts it's because you want to make a phone call, send a text message, send something, and it gives you the option straight away. Whereas back then, Mahara didn't do that. It was waiting for you. You had to decide what you wanted to do next. And I think because it is so much more intuitive, it opens up so much more opportunities for people to be creative and to be innovative and to showcase themselves, which is what it's all about.

Kristina Hoeppner: 29:00

It will be even more intuitive with our release of Mahara 26.04 in April because we have gone through a very big phase of UX redesign, talking to our community members, and also doing an information architecture review in order to find out where there are elements that need to change in order to simplify workflows, in order to make it more apparent what people need to do right from the start, and so I look forward to rolling that out, and we should talk then again.

Jaye Ryan: 29:30

Absolutely [laughs]. I'm excited just listening to you talk about some of the things that are coming, sounds really good.

Kristina Hoeppner: 29:37

So that now takes us into our quick answer round. So the last questions for you. Which words or short phrases do you use to describe portfolio work?

Jaye Ryan: 29:48

I'm going to have to go with that one - student-owned. That was one of the things that I would talk about to the students all the time. It was one of the only things that they actually owned, that they could be themselves and they could show us who they were. So, yeah, student-owned to showcase you.

Kristina Hoeppner: 30:06

Perfect. What tip do you have for learning designers or instructors who create portfolio activities?

Jaye Ryan: 30:16

They need to work together. The magic started to happen when I began working with the students. So by getting the Student Academic Mentors, the STAMPs on board, that's when things really started to evolve because the STAMPs they were in two camps. They knew what the students were going through because they were students, but at the same time, they knew the journey that was ahead of them because they were also nursing students. So they used their understanding of what this journey ahead, what it was going to look like, to support the newer students that were coming through. The creators of the ePortfolio, need to work with the students in order to find out what it is they want, how they want it to be, what they would like it to look like, and come to agreements. I think that's key. You've got to work with the student to develop it, especially if it's going to be student-owned [laughs].

Kristina Hoeppner: 31:16

Yeah, completely, yeah. The STAMPs, they were a very good idea, and lots of other institutions also had what they called peer mentors or eterns, and they all really heavily rely on them, and also see the benefits because they can talk in the language of the students, they had more shared experience because they've just gone through it as well.

Jaye Ryan: 31:38

I did a very small research project and published on the back of it asking them which resources were most beneficial, and it was the STAMPs. The Student Academic Mentors came out as top. It helped with that self efficacy, as in, 'Okay, you can do it. I've watched you do it. I can do that. I know I can do that.' That was one of the biggest confidence builders. Don't assume that everyone is IT literate. Back in 2010, we made that assumption that, you know, everyone's got an iPhone, everyone's got a laptop, everyone's got a desktop, everyone will know how to use Mahara. They don't. And you know what, Kristina, even now, I come across students that have laptops and have devices and they don't really know how to use them. It's a massive assumption, and especially when students come into university, you know, family are so proud of them. They will put together and they will get them this all singing, all dancing laptop that, unfortunately, they can't use because they don't know how to use it. So don't underestimate, don't assume that it is for everyone, and that level of literacy is there for everyone. There is going to have to be some templates, guidelines, training, support put in place in order for this to continue. And then, as it does, build use the ones that are good. Use the students that are really good and really keen and want to help, use them to help others that are struggling, that will create more confident students who will then go on to help others. I did it for years when the others finished their course, and they graduated and left and went to become nurses. I had the next round up and ready, and it just continued, and it works really well.

Kristina Hoeppner: 33:31

Yeah, thank you so much for that second tip that lecturers, tutors, instructors, whatever they are called at an institution, need to keep in mind. What would you say to the students who create the portfolios? What do you want to tell the future generation of nursing students in regards to portfolio practice, what they should keep in mind?

Jaye Ryan: 33:52

The nursing profession, it's a hard course. It really is a hard course. It teaches you so much about yourself as an individual. You need to remember that when these job adverts come out, you know, it's not just a few newly qualified nurses that are going for these jobs. There will possibly be hundreds, hundreds of newly graduating student nurses are going for these newly qualified jobs, not just from your university, but from lots of universities. Our courses now, for an intake in September, 600 / 650?

Kristina Hoeppner: 34:31

Wow.

Jaye Ryan: 34:31

That's a lot, and you will all be finishing your course at the same point. How are you going to stand out? How are you going to look different than someone else who is completing the same course as you? What I consider is that this ePortfolio could be the key. It will show you as being IT literate. It will show you as continuing your development, not just within the course, but also outside of the course. That will show your potential employer that you have ambition, that you have staying power, that you have determination, and all of these abilities and attributes you can put within your ePortfolio so that they can really see who you are beyond the BSc Honours Nursing student. Yeah, got a first class honours degree, but my God, have you see my portfolio? That's what I would say [laughs].

Kristina Hoeppner: 35:28

Yeah, that's a very, very good tip for the students to personalise their experience and stand out.

Jaye Ryan: 35:34

Absolutely.

Kristina Hoeppner: 35:35

Thank you so so much for the chat today, Jaye.

Jaye Ryan: 35:39

You're welcome.

Kristina Hoeppner: 35:41

I loved hearing what you have done within the nursing degree, introducing portfolios, working with them for many, many years, helping a lot of nursing students become professionals, and well certainly look forward to continuing to follow your journey and seeing what is going to happen with the new rewrite in a few months. Thank you so much.

Jaye Ryan: 36:02

Thank you. Thank you.

Kristina Hoeppner: 36:03

Now over to our listeners. What do you want to try in your own portfolio practice? This was 'Create. Share. Engage.' with Associate Professor Dr Jaye Ryan. Head to our website, podcast.mahara.org, where you can find resources and the transcript for this episode. This podcast is produced by Catalyst IT. Our next episode will air in two weeks. I hope you will listen again and also tell a colleague about our podcast so they can subscribe. Until then, create, share, and engage.