Kristina Hoeppner: 0:05

Welcome to'Create. Share. Engage.' This is the podcast about portfolios for learning and more for educators, learning designers, and managers keen on integrating portfolios with their education and professional development practices. 'Create. Share. Engage.' is brought to you by the Mahara team at Catalyst IT. My name is Kristina Hoeppner. My guest today is Teaching Professor Dr Theresa Conefrey from Santa Clara University in the United States. We've been on the AAEEBL Digital Ethics Task Force for several years now, so it's good to catch up with you, Theresa, to learn more about the work you do with portfolios and thinking about how artificial intelligence fits into the bigger picture. I look forward to our chat. So, welcome to the podcast, Theresa.

Theresa Conefrey: 0:59

Thanks, Kristina. Happy to be here.

Kristina Hoeppner: 1:01

Pretty much every single time that I hear your name, the song 'An Englishman in New York' pops into my head.

Theresa Conefrey: 1:08

Sting, yeah.

Kristina Hoeppner: 1:09

Yeah, and I'm just always rephrasing it to 'An Englishwoman in California'.

Theresa Conefrey: 1:14

You've put that song in my head now too.

Kristina Hoeppner: 1:16

Yeah, maybe we should play it as background music [laughs]. Anyway, today we are talking about portfolios. So, Theresa, what do you do at the university?

Theresa Conefrey: 1:27

As you mentioned, I'm a Teaching Professor. My main department is English, but I've also taught in the Engineering department, and I'm the Peer Educator Director. So I do the basic trainings. But right now I'm on phased retirement because I'm thinking about doing something different, which is good. It gives me more time for my research interests, which have been about ePortfolios, student learning, particularly first-generation learning, and I am really interested in AI, playing with it, seeing how it can help our students.

Kristina Hoeppner: 2:00

You've been one of the early adopters of artificial intelligence within the AAEEBL Digital Ethics Task Force and have been quite involved in thinking about it, experimenting with it. So those are all the things that we are going to touch on then today. When did you become aware of portfolios for the first time, Theresa? Do you remember?

Theresa Conefrey: 2:21

Yeah, I became aware of ePortfolios and ed tech when I went back to teaching full time. I initially came to ed tech as efficiency, as a way of keeping track of my work, organising syllabi, making the assignments more available to students. Before then, work was always submitted under the door in a mailbox, and having a busy life outside academia, I liked the promise of everything on a computer and being able to grade, look at the student work at any time of the day, anywhere. I liked the convenience of our early learning management systems, and around that same time, I was learning about ePortfolios. That's probably about 2012, 2013. I thought that they were great for students because that would be one place where they could house all their information, and I liked the idea that they were self-directed, that they were constructed by students, that they were creative, students had ownership, and I guess that also links to my interdisciplinary interests. Teaching in the English department, having done research in life science laboratory, continuing to teach in engineering departments, hearing about all the fabulous work, new ideas coming from our engineering majors. So yeah, I definitely am a fan of any kind of educational technologies that can improve learning and teaching.

Kristina Hoeppner: 3:48

For what do your students use portfolios? Is it very much for that lifelong learning, preparing them for their careers, or do you also use it for assessment purposes with them?

Theresa Conefrey: 3:59

I know some universities have different policies and have had maybe broader adoption than at Santa Clara University, where I'm a faculty member. At our university, it's very much up to the individual faculty member, departments how they use it, if they use it, and so on. So we haven't had any common policies. I've experimented with different kinds of ePortfolios, with the traditional learning ePortfolios, demonstrate to me how you've acquired the learning outcomes. And I've also encouraged students, particularly in Engineering, to use ePortfolios for interviewing, for job search process, whether or not they would share them with the employers, and whether or not the employers would actually read them, I saw a lot of benefit in helping them to prepare for interviews, for curating what they know, providing more information. As we all know, they can run parallel to a LinkedIn page. Initially, that was maybe part of the resistance. Students would say, "Yes, but I've got LinkedIn, or I've got my GitHub." Why do I need an ePortfolio? But they provide a richer space. You can have more information about what you're doing; pictures, videos, graphics. It's one place for housing everything, and you can provide as much information as you want.

Kristina Hoeppner: 5:15

Yeah. What lecturers have also said when they were using portfolios for career purposes with their students is that the students might not have necessarily shown the portfolio when they were in the interview, but it did help them prepare for it because they reflected on what they had been learning, what experiences worked for them, what they wanted to differently, and therefore could talk more confidently about who they are and what their aspirations are.

Theresa Conefrey: 5:44

Yeah, that aspect too. I'm interested in ePortfolios, helping students to develop an academic identity. So even the incoming first years, making that transition from high school to first year. What does it mean to be at college? And then, if we think about the engineering majors, how do they become engineers? Because somehow they do. At the end of their programs, they are not all of them, but a good majority confidently see themselves as engineers. How does that happen? Can they document that process? Can they show that confidence? And as we know, sometimes there's a gap between what students know and what they can convey. So sometimes the smartest students aren't always good at displaying their learning, and maybe e-portfolios can help them.

Kristina Hoeppner: 6:27

Yeah. Lately, Theresa, you've been researching and exploring the use of artificial intelligence in college writing. Can you draw us a picture of why you had become interested in looking into that further because you had already started with that pretty early on in 2023, if I remember correctly, when we started conversations about that in the Task Force. In general, why does the topic of artificial intelligence in writing interest you?

Theresa Conefrey: 7:00

Students were using AI was pretty obvious.

Kristina Hoeppner: 7:03

How was it obvious to you? Did you just feel like the writing changed?

Theresa Conefrey: 7:07

So I talk to my students. I'm on social media. I'm always interested in technology and educational technology. So I would ask students how they were using it. Before AI, we had Grammarly. So some of my students were using Grammarly. Often we would talk in class about what have you found or what's something new you learned, a new trick with your phone or some new skill that might be just part of class conversation. They were telling me that they were using it, and I guess I did see some big improvement, some jumps in improvement in writing amongst my students that initially was pleasant but surprising, and I wanted to explore that further. At that time, we weren't long out of COVID, and there were lots of different discussions happening on campus. But my feeling was that it wasn't going to go away; that it was here to stay; that it was the future, and students would be using it, whether we wanted to pretend it wasn't there or not, and so it seemed to me it was better to work with it than work against it. If students were going to be using AI, I wanted to play around with it myself so that I had an idea how they were using it, and then see if I could influence them to use it more effectively for learning rather than to avoid learning. So I've always been passionate about writing, not just as communicating information, but as a tool for thinking. And I try to convey that even more strongly to students that if they used AI to produce their writing for them, they would be sidestepping the benefit that they could get from doing this thinking. Across the university, there are loads of different opinions. There are faculty who ban it, who are still hoping it'll go away, who have very restrictive policy statements. But to me, they don't work. You can catch students who weren't using AI, or you can have students using AI that aren't detectable. So I really think that's the wrong path to go down. I think we have to encourage students see how they can use AI to improve and enhance their learning. To me, there are many ways that that is possible.

Kristina Hoeppner: 9:10

Which takes us into how does AI then fit into the work that you ask your students to do in the portfolio? What do they use AI for? Is it just for writing or also for other things?

Theresa Conefrey: 9:24

The big thing about AI and writing is that writing used to be a proxy for learning, whether it was assignments, reports, or ePortfolios. Now AI has destabilised writing as evidence of learning because students, even an ePortfolio, they could give you a very polished ePortfolio that had been created by an AI. And for all intents and purposes, depending on how you, as a faculty member, how much you had interacted with AI, you might notice it or you might not. If they are using ePortfolio in the way that we want them to, it is a very good use of AI because I think some of the things that we're noticing with AI is that learning can be fragmented, and students are learning, going online, understanding information for themselves. Maybe they're in a physics class or chemistry class, and they don't understand some concepts, so they could look that up. Maybe they are having AI help them brainstorm, maybe revise and edit. Before it used to be that the universities were where you went to get the information, and now it's not that straightforward because information is everywhere. The students, that's both good and bad. Good because there's information everywhere; it's available 24/7. But bad, sometimes their learning can get fragmented. One of the early promises for me of eportfolio was that it was a good way to bring your learning together, that you could understand what you'd learned in a course, but across courses from one year to the next, from one discipline to the next. I like that. I wanted to see students transferring their learning from one domain to the next.

Kristina Hoeppner: 10:54

Do you see that?

Theresa Conefrey: 10:56

Well, I saw that as the benefit of ePortfolios when ePortfolios became available. Now reflection is even more important than ever. What's the tool par excellence for reflection? It's the ePortfolio. Where can you do reflection better than anywhere else? To me, that is the ePortfolio. So, if part of the initial promise of it was to help students bring their learning together, apply their learning, transfer their learning, reflect on their learning, see their learning, convince themselves as well as employers how much they had learned. Where can you do that? Where can you do that so easily? It's an ePortfolio.

Kristina Hoeppner: 11:28

Since a large language model chatbot can write a reflection, do you have conversations with them, really, also explaining why they should be writing that? Maybe use it to polish their writing if they feel like they have to, but still do the thinking themselves.

Theresa Conefrey: 11:47

Early on, I did see that sometimes, but I'm not seeing that now because I think a lot of students know that faculty are aware of what I guess some people call AI slop looks like, and I usually have explicit discussions about that. We look at different versions of an 'About me' page on an ePortfolio and discuss which do you think a human wrote, which do think an AI wrote, and why? So I might have that as an activity in groups, and then have students present their findings. And if that wasn't convincing enough, I would always want to go back to if we're doing an assignment, why we're doing that assignment? Trying to get the students on board with the idea that it's not just to get a grade to complete an assignment, but if they take it seriously, there's something in it for them. In this situation, it would be that they are depriving themselves of the learning, the metacognition that they could be gaining from doing that work themselves. But I'm not at all against them editing with AI. I'm quite happy if they use it to brainstorm, use it to help them organise, but I want them to be doing the drafts themselves, and I want them to be maintaining control. In other words, if they do their own rough version and edit it, they might have several iterations, but they are discerning. They are they're the ones who are making the decisions. Does that reflect me? Does it not? And absolutely, no cutting and pasting. Obviously, that's very far from anything that I would want them to do. But they can make decisions about does this phrase does it represent more clearly? Does it express the idea that I was trying to get across better than how I'd originally written it? If so, that's their idea, but expressed in a way that's clearer, that helps the reader understand or the viewer where they're heading. And I'm all for that.

Kristina Hoeppner: 13:33

Two questions come to mind then. Number one, you had said you make it very clear to them why you want them to do the work themselves and to do the learning. Does that then mean that your learning objectives are more transparent to your students than they might have been before, so that they do know what's behind the activity and why they are doing that? So, so really getting to that meta level?

Theresa Conefrey: 14:02

All our syllabi, forever, have had learning objectives, learning outcomes, and how they're going to be assessed. So that's not new, but that's not to say that the students read them. Even if they did read them and think about them on the first day of class, that's not to say that they're always going to be in their mind. So I don't think it hurts at all to discuss before we get into assignment, before we get into the specs, how many pages, what it's about, what's supposed to be included, why we're doing it, and have a discussion. Because yeah, students aren't always as eager learners as we might want them to be, but if they can understand how that learning might be helping them, I'm a big fan of intentional lifelong learning. I think you get a lot further if you can be internally motivated and you know what you're doing, why you're doing it, how it's going to help you achieve goals that you've set for yourself.

Kristina Hoeppner: 14:53

Then the second question, because you mentioned that you ask your students to re-draft what they have written, and then compare and reflect on what they want to change, what they might want to change when they had some assistance from a chatbot and the like. Does that then mean that they are becoming more reflective?

Theresa Conefrey: 15:17

Yeah, I think it is. Depends what you do with that then. So I wouldn't necessarily have them do all this work by themselves. I have them work in groups, and then I have class discussions. You know, all the usual work by yourself, pair and share, take it to a group, take it to class discussion. Sometimes my classes are quite long, so I do try and go through a variety of activities. If the student were justifying to a peer, why did they accept this suggestion and not that suggestion? Or if they were explaining to me, how did they arrive at this version rather than then another version? So yeah, I want them to be thinking about their process, and then across time, what did they think originally, and then how has their thinking changed? Some students can also look at patterns; they can take it to another meta level. How is their thinking changing? How is AI helping them to maybe clarify and organise their thinking? And I think there's a role for that as well. For me, as an instructor as well, having taught classes - I don't know how long I've been teaching, 20 plus years - and then taking classes myself, I've had the experience of being both sides of the desk. What might be very clear to me, well, it's obvious that what this assignment is asking isn't clear when I'm the student looking at another faculty member's syllabus and trying to figure out their assignments. So in that case, I can use AI myself for clarifying my assignments or asking how could this assignment be misunderstood? For me, that's a training. Where are the gaps in my thinking? Where am I making assumptions? Where is something not as clear as it could be?

Kristina Hoeppner: 16:46

Theresa, in June, you gave a presentation at the AAEEBL Symposium, and you did mention in that presentation also that you've been working with Riff, the reflection bot. Can you share what your experience is with that tool that is specifically designed to help learners, doesn't have to be college students or university students, but anybody to go deeper into the reflection?

Theresa Conefrey: 17:13

That presentation I was speaking about last quarter, when I required students to do a reflection assignment with all of their major assignments. It was for me and them. Part of my curiosity how they were using AI, if they had used AI, and for them to get to these metacognitive levels, how had they been using AI or not. Some of them chose not to. I don't want to say that all students are using AI. Some, on principle, are absolutely not because they think it hurts their creativity. At that point, I gave them the choice; either they could write a reflection, freehand answer a few questions or use Riffbot. Some students did both. Some students used exclusively Riffbot. The ones who used Riffbot, they liked it. They liked their questions. They thought it did push them to think about the choices that they were doing. And I guess one funny aspect or amusing aspect of Riffbot is that you have to tell it to stop. If you don't know that, it can ask questions indefinitely. So the students who took a while to figure that out were quite exhausted. They had a very thorough reflection by the end of it. I like using that tool because sometimes students sent me the whole transcript, and that was interesting for me to see what Riffbot picked up on, or it gave me a summary. Mostly, the questions were deeper than those that the students chose to write about in their own reflections. But I wanted to give them a choice, and I wanted them to compare both. What's it like if I write my own reflection? What's it like if I use AI for my reflection?

Kristina Hoeppner: 18:43

And so the students that used both, did they see which method they preferred?

Theresa Conefrey: 18:49

Well, the ones who used Riff, they liked that it formulated the questions for them, and it pushed them to think deeper. The ones who didn't use Riff they liked the opposite that they had the freedom to choose their own questions and make their own responses and determine the length. So some students like it, some students like more freedom in whatever it is, and others, I guess, have less tolerance for uncertainty, and they liked having the structure.

Kristina Hoeppner: 19:15

Have you used Riff yourself to reflect, Theresa?

Theresa Conefrey: 19:19

I haven't recently. When it first came out, yeah, anything that I ask my students to do, I usually play around with a bit myself, and yeah, I do remember this issue of wow, am I going to get the last question? But the last question never comes.

Kristina Hoeppner: 19:31

I do remember that because you also asked me about it [laughs]. That was really in the early days of Riff when there wasn't an 'End' button when you really needed to type 'End'. Yeah, so I also really like that tool that Dr Leticia Britos Cavagnaro developed at the d.school at Stanford University because, in contrast to a lot of other bots that are out there where you can mimic similar behaviours, that it does not give you any answers. It only asks questions using the 'What? So what? Now what?' reflection model as basis, and then having the whole research of reflection built into it, so that it mirrors back what you had said, and then sets a follow-on question.

Theresa Conefrey: 20:15

And what I really appreciated about those questions is that they take your context into consideration, in contrast to the questions that you give your students upfront, which need to be relatively generic for the most part, especially if all students can have different experiences and reflect on different experiences, Riff personalises that. So that can be something really nice because you get deeper into that specific reflection, but I also see the point of the students that choose to use the upfront questions that they are then freer in their responses, potentially longer rather than just sticking to answering that particular question. So it's good that you have done the comparison. Yeah, I encourage students to try both, and some mixed it depending on the assignments, and others decided they liked one or the other.

Kristina Hoeppner: 21:09

You've talked about how you use AI in your portfolio work. If we were to summarise that, where do you see that artificial intelligence can be beneficial for students creating their portfolios?

Theresa Conefrey: 21:22

What other people have noticed, the tyranny of the blank page. In this case, the blank screen. Often in universities, students have a template, but sometimes they don't. They're given free choice of platform how they want to create their ePortfolio. So it can help them with layout decisions. It can help them figure out how they're going to organise the work, I guess would be the basic. And then as we said, with reflections, it can help them revise or check if there's anything improved or any problems that they need to work on. But it can also help them with their own experience. So it can help them at this metacognitive level using some of the tools when they're trying to revise their reflections. Have they explained clearly how their thinking has progressed? Have they explained clearly why this or that artefact represents them? My students have also used AI to find themes in their research, themes in their learning, themes in their reflections.

Kristina Hoeppner: 22:20

So lots of different benefits from a writing assistant support to potentially seeing a bit more clearly where they can improve on their writing, to then also more logistical or design choices, potentially also generating some imagery or infographics for those that would otherwise only express everything in writing, they can now have a bit more multimodal portfolio representations.

Theresa Conefrey: 22:51

But I think it's important that the student maintains control. If the students aren't thinking about what they're doing and why they're doing it, they're more likely to go with the first choice offered by AI instead of thinking, well, could it be different? Does this really represent what I was going for? Can I tweak it? And I'm all the time encouraging students to do that to iterate. Don't go with the first output. Don't go with the first image.

Kristina Hoeppner: 23:15

So it also comes down to critical thinking, and again, to reflection in making sure, well, is that really what I wanted to say, or should I make some more changes? When you're teaching writing, and some of your students use AI to rephrase their words, how do you help them navigate that space then, is it pretty much like what you've already said through encouraging them to share their drafts, talk to fellow students, and critically look at any of the suggestions that they get. Or is there anything else in your digital toolbox that you use and would want to share?

Theresa Conefrey: 23:56

Well, I guess this isn't digital, but I've talked more since AI came about about good difficulty and the idea that learning is effortful and hard. I think that can be a potential problem because AI makes writing, which a lot of students prior to that would have said, "Oh, I hate writing. I'm an engineer because I don't like writing." So, what's the solution? Well, you have AI do the writing for you, but there is benefit to struggling through that difficulty. As a warm-up in class, I've had students think about what was a difficult situation you overcame, or what was something difficult you did that was really hard that you pushed through and you persevered, and now you're proud of yourself. So I had students talking about these stories. I wanted that to be in their head because sometimes in education there's a model that if it's difficult, then I'm not good at it, or if it's difficult I should give up, or well okay this is good enough now I'll use AI. But we know that AI can give you polished writing, but the polished writing that you are reading through isn't evidence for you that you've learned something. At the end of the day, however, we're going to test that. Of course, AI has generated problems for testing, but the students need to be sure that they know what they think they know. They don't want to have this illusion of learning. So, good difficulty, friction is good. I think AI both helps and hurts with this because AI can help get rid of unhelpful difficulty, students who've got learning difficulties or learning issues, it can help them in lots of different ways. But it can go too far insofar as it can remove the friction and have some students think that they know more than they do. Or first-year students, if they see a polished piece of AI output, assume because it's written well that the content is good. But before AI, I've always told my students, even if the writing's a bit rough, if the ideas are there, I'm looking for the ideas. Sometimes that's not so obvious to the students, I think. So let's keep the friction.

Kristina Hoeppner: 25:58

Yeah, and that also comes then back to that reflection because when you had a really, really difficult task, you struggled through it, and then came out at the end with success. That of course taught you a lot of stuff going forward.

Theresa Conefrey: 26:12

If we're all about learning transfer and application, if you've had this deeper learning experience, it's going to be easier for you to see how your learning might apply in a different domain. Where I'm taking classes or I'm teaching students who are in different fields, I can recognise the same concept using different language in one field or another. But students might not. I think that was part of the promise of ePortfolio. They're learning something in the English class, and they think, well, that's got nothing to do with my engineering class, or I'm learning this in philosophy, but it doesn't relate to religion. But yes, it does. Don't be put off by the language. If you can step back and see what the concept is, maybe you can translate it into your disciplinary language.

Kristina Hoeppner: 26:53

Transversal skills...

Theresa Conefrey: 26:55

Transferable skills and application, yeah. That's where you can see if somebody's learned something or if they haven't.

Kristina Hoeppner: 27:02

Yeah, and that's something that AI can't do unless, of course, you're prompted so extensively that you might as well write it down yourself for that transfer.

Theresa Conefrey: 27:12

That's also key with the ePortfolio. I think that's where the ePortfolio excels because if you want to see what are the transferable skills, if you're thinking about an employment interview, and maybe you haven't had much experience in the field you're applying for or the position you're applying for, then you need to dig deep. What have I learned in a totally different job experience that would be relevant? And that's not always obvious, but an ePortfolio could help you with that.

Kristina Hoeppner: 27:36

Theresa, what is then next for you on your portfolio journey with your students or also for yourself?

Theresa Conefrey: 27:46

Everything I learn I share with my students. Everything I learn a lot from my students that I bring into my own work. So some of these ideas, these ideas about difficult learning, about using AI maybe as a thinking partner, not just question answer and the role of discernment. We all know that AI is very sycophantic. So how are you going to work around that? Maybe having students ask,'What would a sceptic say?' or'Give me three versions.' That's one of my favourite easy ones. Produce three versions, five versions, and then you have to compare across them. So there's no way to compare across to just decide on one. You have to explain why you like this one or that one, or why you want to combine two and three. Those kind of things I'm doing with my students, and the more I think about how we need to change what we're doing in the classrooms because of AI, the more I think there's a good place for ePortfolios. I think some of the promise of ePortfolios that wasn't realised earlier could be realised. What I've mentioned before about the fragmented learning, so a place to house all your learning experiences, where you're getting information from, a place to sort of think and integrate, bring all that together. For myself too, this summer I'm not teaching. I'm playing around with different platforms more than before, going a little bit into agents, pushing it myself because I'm wondering too if there's a different way of interacting. Obviously, there's this whole debate about staying human in the age of AI, but I don't think it has to be either or. I think there's sort of spaces in between. I think that there can be co-construction with AI that you can, in some senses, come up with something new across chats. And what I'm learning myself experientially, what's the different terms for it? Context deterioration. So I'm learning the frustrations of pursuing longer chats or topics across different chats, and information getting lost and what to do about that. So it's making me think about how I integrate my own learning and what kind of systems do I need to set up. And before maybe I wouldn't have thought so much about that. What interests me as somebody who looked at conversation analysis is how the interactions unfold. The programme is deciding how to respond. It could respond in different ways in I don't know how many different options there are. But how does it choose that particular output? Sometimes I'll jump from having a conversation to, oh, why did you choose that? When I first was coming across this context compression or losing information, and I asked AI, why didn't you mention this? I got a reply in the output. I should have, and then it went on to explain what is context compression, why does it happen, how could you work around it. Then I asked, '"I should have" that sounds like a human might say. Why did you choose that output?' And then I was able to get into a meta discussion about how outputs are decided. To me, that's interesting. I can be both having an interaction and analysing the interaction, and also this aspect of thinking. I would like to analyse how my thinking could be changing using AI. What are the affordances? What are the problems? Because it is AI is a technology. It does bring affordances that we haven't had before. So, what are they? How can I take advantage of them?

Kristina Hoeppner: 31:01

Oh, I look forward to more of your presentations when you share your insights and what you have reflected on in your interactions, once you're ready to share that with others, Theresa.

Theresa Conefrey: 31:14

That's very much a work in progress at the moment. But yeah, I do want to push it a little bit and see where can I find limits and where can I go next.

Kristina Hoeppner: 31:23

Yeah, next for us is the quick answer round. Our last three questions, if you're up for them.

Theresa Conefrey: 31:30

Sure.

Kristina Hoeppner: 31:31

And that is the first one: Which words or short phrases do you use to describe portfolio work?

Theresa Conefrey: 31:38

Reflective, integrative, and agentic.

Kristina Hoeppner: 31:44

Ohh.

Theresa Conefrey: 31:44

If that's a word, I think it's a word.

Kristina Hoeppner: 31:46

It certainly has become a word. What tip do you have for learning designers or instructors who create portfolio activities?

Theresa Conefrey: 31:56

That's something I mentioned before. So I think start with the purpose, not the platform. Help students understand what the portfolio can do for them and why they're doing it before explaining what you are requiring of them in it.

Kristina Hoeppner: 32:09

Last but not least, what is your advice that you have for portfolio authors, for your students, or also for any professional that's keeping a portfolio?

Theresa Conefrey: 32:19

Following on for that, for students to, or anybody who's creating an e portfolio to make it theirs, and don't just document what you've produced, but use the e portfolio to understand how you're changing, what you're learning, and if you use AI, don't give AI the job of deciding what the changes mean. So this is back to agentic. You're in control of the technology. It's not telling you what you think. You're using it to help figure out what you think.

Kristina Hoeppner: 32:47

Thank you so much, Theresa, for keeping the control with the students, making it very clear that they might use tools to assist them, but that the control still vests in them, and that they should be thinking about what they see, how they can interpret it, and then also transfer any of the skills and knowledge that they've learned to different contexts in order to make use of that themselves elsewhere. Thank you so much for today's chat.

Theresa Conefrey: 33:19

Thank you. This has been fun. Thanks, Kristina.

Kristina Hoeppner: 33:23

Now over to our listeners. As you think about your own portfolio work, what resonated most with you today? Share your thoughts on LinkedIn, Bluesky, or Mastodon, and tag me or send me an email. This was 'Create. Share. Engage.' with Teaching Professor Dr Theresa Conefrey. Make sure to check out the resources in the episode number. In your podcast app or at podcast.mahara.org. If you found this valuable, share it with a colleague who would appreciate it too. Our next episode will air in two weeks. Until then, create, share, and engage.